Topic: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW

[unclelouie]

"Input impedance: 22k ohms; Minimum input level: 500mV; Rated input level: 2.0V"

while the edirol R-09HR has

"Line input: 15 k ohms, Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)"

Anyone care to tell me what this means in normal language? Would this enable the M10 to handle a hotter signal than the edirol?

in normal language:

1) 22kohm: it's telling you that the input is high impedance, so you can connect a mic without worrying about signal loss. Connecting a low-impedance device to a high-impedance is called "bridging" and it's a good thing. Generally, good quality mics are low impedance (200 ohm, 600 ohm etc.), but cheap mics can be higher, although still less than 22 kohm.

2) 500mV: the minimum input level is how much signal voltage the device needs in order to write something other than zero. If you run a self-powered mic or a preamp, don't worry. Sony makes some mics for pod-casting, like the MS-907, that they'll probably encourage you to use with this thing.

3) 2.0V: the rated voltage, and I'm guessing here so someone may correct this, is probably the voltage rating for clipping the ADC. It should, therefore, be able to handle a line-level signal. (I wonder if this is peak or RMS, my gut tells me peak).

4) 2 dBu: I'm no audio expert, but I belive dBu is used to describe the RMS of the signal. If you don't know, RMS is Root Mean Square, which is a way of describing the magnitude of a varying quantity, or in this case a varying audio signal. When working with audio, I often think of it as the average loudness of the recording. IIRC, most pro audio line output is +4dBu, which means that the signal coming out has an RMS around 1.25V. I always thought that the (American) standard for line level was +4dBu for balanced loads and +2dBu for unbalanced loads so I think this is a normal rating for professional equipment. Guysonic would know better. Anyway, it's basically saying that it can handle a line-level signal.

Frankly, I'm not sure the M10 will give the R-09HR much competition. Edirol makes a great recorder and, as I've said before, the MicroSD card is an immediate turn off for me. They're too easy to lose. Also, while Sony has made great preamps, they must have skimped somewhere on this recorder to make it so cheap:hopefully they kept the same preamp from the D-50, and skimped elsewhere

[illconditioned]

"Input impedance: 22k ohms; Minimum input level: 500mV; Rated input level: 2.0V"

while the edirol R-09HR has

"Line input: 15 k ohms, Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)"

Anyone care to tell me what this means in normal language? Would this enable the M10 to handle a hotter signal than the edirol?

in normal language:

1) 22kohm: it's telling you that the input is high impedance, so you can connect a mic without worrying about signal loss. Connecting a low-impedance device to a high-impedance is called "bridging" and it's a good thing. Generally, good quality mics are low impedance (200 ohm, 600 ohm etc.), but cheap mics can be higher, although still less than 22 kohm.

2) 500mV: the minimum input level is how much signal voltage the device needs in order to write something other than zero. If you run a self-powered mic or a preamp, don't worry. Sony makes some mics for pod-casting, like the MS-907, that they'll probably encourage you to use with this thing.

3) 2.0V: the rated voltage, and I'm guessing here so someone may correct this, is probably the voltage rating for clipping the ADC. It should, therefore, be able to handle a line-level signal. (I wonder if this is peak or RMS, my gut tells me peak).

4) 2 dBu: I'm no audio expert, but I belive dBu is used to describe the RMS of the signal. If you don't know, RMS is Root Mean Square, which is a way of describing the magnitude of a varying quantity, or in this case a varying audio signal. When working with audio, I often think of it as the average loudness of the recording. IIRC, most pro audio line output is +4dBu, which means that the signal coming out has an RMS around 1.25V. I always thought that the (American) standard for line level was +4dBu for balanced loads and +2dBu for unbalanced loads so I think this is a normal rating for professional equipment. Guysonic would know better. Anyway, it's basically saying that it can handle a line-level signal.

Frankly, I'm not sure the M10 will give the R-09HR much competition. Edirol makes a great recorder and, as I've said before, the MicroSD card is an immediate turn off for me. They're too easy to lose. Also, while Sony has made great preamps, they must have skimped somewhere on this recorder to make it so cheap:hopefully they kept the same preamp from the D-50, and skimped elsewhere

If the preamp is as good (or near) as the D50, this will be great.  The preamps on every other flash recorder are poor, either not enough gain (R09) or noise, glitches, etc in the signal.  This is one aspect where I trust Sony to deliver.  I'll live with inconveniences (micro SD, memory stick) to get a decent analog stage.

  Richard

[unclelouie]

The R-09HR was a big step up from the issues that the R-09 had. I remember some posts of tests that showed some odd spikes way up around 20kHz, but it's inaudible, and way below the noise floor of some of the other recorders like the h2, h4, R-09 etc. Also, the fostex FR-2LE is another great flash recorder that gets overlooked because it ain't exactly small.  As far as tiny recorders go, then yes, the M10 has potential if they stick with the preamp from the D50. I can't deny the importance of a good preamp and low noise floor - especially if you do most of your taping outside a noisy bar. (Which I do)

Incidentally, does anyone know of a page (or thread) that compares ALL the flash recorders in a clear, concise manner? So many new recorders have entered the market over the past year, and most pages I find focus on the R-09, R-09HR, MTII, H2, and H4.

[printguy]

Incidentally, does anyone know of a page (or thread) that compares ALL the flash recorders in a clear, concise manner? So many new recorders have entered the market over the past year, and most pages I find focus on the R-09, R-09HR, MTII, H2, and H4.

Try this one: http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/recorders/chart.php

Is it "ALL" the flash recorders out there? No. But it's a good summary nonetheless.

[jlykos]

Frankly, I'm not sure the M10 will give the R-09HR much competition. Edirol makes a great recorder and, as I've said before, the MicroSD card is an immediate turn off for me. They're too easy to lose. Also, while Sony has made great preamps, they must have skimped somewhere on this recorder to make it so cheap:hopefully they kept the same preamp from the D-50, and skimped elsewhere

From what I understand, the major cost savings is in the microphones and in some components.  The D50 has surprisingly good microphones and while nobody has heard the ones in the M10, I would be very surprised that they would deliver anywhere the same performance given the photos I have seen.  Also, it looks like the M10 has plastic input jacks while the D50 has metal ones.

Some major selling points were that the D50 uses four separate circuit boards (including one dedicated to recording) to minimize interference and two A/D converters for the limiter.  I do not know if this level of "overengineering" will be utilized in the M10.

[dogmusic]

Not sure if this is already reported, but the M10 now appears to have a remote as a supplied accessory.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/

[daku]

Not sure if this is already reported, but the M10 now appears to have a remote as a supplied accessory.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/

They also stated that the microphones are omnidirectional so this is more like Marantz PMD620.
I have PCM-D50 and it works fine but recordings need some work in post if I want decent document.
The good thing is that it fits in national geographic NG4567 so I can, go for it always.

The question is also, does it have SBM dithering it can be sweet sometimes...

[tekdroid]

Not sure if this is already reported, but the M10 now appears to have a remote as a supplied accessory.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/

Unexpected! Nice for a freebie. They must be looking to get rid of stock :p
I noticed they added WMA and AAC playback support. MP3 recording support too. I guess they paid out that MP3 recording royalty :p

Happy to hear the headphone output is pretty good (20mW + 20mW into 16 ohms), the D50's is was great and 25mW+ 25mW, apparently. 16GB el cheapo MicroSD should be a joy (would hardly need to take it out).

Key Control sounds interesting.
Digital Limiter and Digital Low Cut Filter. I wonder if they differ.

For sure the mics will be cut-down. I doubt preamp will be.
Internal speaker is cute. Cross-memory recording. Auto-level control feature added, too. Some nice additions to make up for the omissions.

2xAA batteries mean battery life will probably be less than the D50. Am I the only one that thinks Sony should supply no batteries rather than disposables? Gah.

Anyway, I'm excited. Sounds like good value recorder for the masses.

[darktrain]

Guitar Center has a arrival date listed as Sept. 28th, 299.00 and free shipping and you can preorder. Waiting to see if someone is offering the same deal but with a extra card.

[drewloo]

Not sure if they've already been doing so but I just got an email from B&H stating they're accepting pre-orders now, shipped first-come first-served. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/sitem/sku=638090&is=REG&bi=E15

[su6oxone]

Can't wait till someone gets one of these and gives a nice review of it. 

[eman]

2xAA batteries mean battery life will probably be less than the D50. Am I the only one that thinks Sony should supply no batteries rather than disposables? Gah.

New AA rechargeables are rated 2450mAh, two of them would be 4.9Ah. That's a considerable number of electrons, plus they are easier to change, and you can keep as many as you like in your pocket. I actually look for things that are AA powered as I have so many already, for my bike lights, flashlights, camera, and remotes. Buying "disposables" is borderline criminal as well as stupid in this day and age.

[WiFiJeff]

2xAA batteries mean battery life will probably be less than the D50. Am I the only one that thinks Sony should supply no batteries rather than disposables? Gah.

New AA rechargeables are rated 2450mAh, two of them would be 4.9Ah. That's a considerable number of electrons, plus they are easier to change, and you can keep as many as you like in your pocket. I actually look for things that are AA powered as I have so many already, for my bike lights, flashlights, camera, and remotes. Buying "disposables" is borderline criminal as well as stupid in this day and age.

You've misread this.  The issue is that the new machine will be powered by 2XAA rather than 4XAA as is the D50, which gets very long recording time with four AAs.  Two may not give as good results.  And the complaint is that Sony gives you two disposable batteries with the recorder, what's the point of that?

Jeff

[eman]

Oh. Nevermind.

But yeah, 2 AA's should be good enough for anyone's musical set, hopefully, then you pull out the next set. Without phantom power it shouldn't suck them down very fast. Worth it, I think, for portability when you are recording only one show/set. Put the disposables in the TV remote I guess where they will last the longest.

I like it, but I really am not too thrilled with mini inputs only. I haven't seen the other side or a list if I/O but doesn't it look like that's all there is? A nice stealth unit, but I'm looking for one that I can use stealth or bit bucket or ideally for everything. The PMD 661 with a mod is looking like that, for twice the $$. Does anyone think it will be possible to take the USB out from a UA5 or something to use this as a bit bucket?

[Artstar]

New AA rechargeables are rated 2450mAh, two of them would be 4.9Ah.

Not quite. The M10 will be a 3V device, not 1.5V (or 2.4/1.2V when accounting for rechargeables). Therefore, your current capacity will still be 2.45Ah since the batteries will be operating in series, not parallel.

plus they are easier to change, and you can keep as many as you like in your pocket.

Agreed. Though I prefer to travel light so the less I have in my pockets, the less any metal detector may pick up on at a gig too. In which case, I just change the batteries beforehand if I've done about 24 hours of recording in total.

Buying "disposables" is borderline criminal as well as stupid in this day and age.

I prefer to use the Energizer lithium AA's rather than rechargeables given their running time. Guilty as charged.