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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW  (Read 173320 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #345 on: December 28, 2009, 06:51:05 PM »
Everyone has been saying that the PCM-M10 has amazing battery life…Well, I would say that is the understatement of the year!  I ran mics > BB > recorder at 16/44.1 with an 8 GB microSD and the cross-memory recording function on.  The thing kept on running until the memory was full…Almost 19 hours (18h46m).  And that was with the backlight (and LEDs) on continuously*…

I should mention that these are the batteries that came packaged with the recorder, and that I had used them for about an hour prior to my test.  After the 19 hour run, the battery indicator was still reading half, although it dropped to ¼  after transferring the files, re-formatting both the internal and external memories, and making another 15 minute test recording. 

The transfer speeds were a little slow (16m15s to transfer the 1.99 GB and 1.7 GB files from the internal memory and 28m for the 3 x 1.99 GB and 1.38 GB files from the microSD), but a card reader copied the data from the microSD much more quickly.

Also, the split that occurs switching from one memory source to the other with cross-memory recording appears seamless, from both listening to the merged file and examining the wav.  Incidentally, the recorder treats the two memory sources independently with respect to naming files.  This might give rise to two files with the same name… 

*Not sure how much difference the backlight makes, but Sony says in the manual “When you select “Always-ON,” the batteries will be consumed quickly. When you use the PCM recorder with batteries, we recommend you select other options than “Always-ON.”
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 07:12:07 PM by aaronji »

Offline kfrinkle

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #346 on: December 28, 2009, 08:44:52 PM »
I jumped in and bought one of these on that B&H Photo sale... Can't wait to get it and test it out!  I am getting tired of the poor MT battery life issues, and this is the first big purchase I have made in over a year...
-Karl
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Offline Napo

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #347 on: December 29, 2009, 11:35:13 AM »
Hi, there;

has any of you used the limiter function? I tried to record a theater drama and the voice of the actors were recorded too low and the music in between too loud.

Another question: can the limiter function be used together wit Low Cut Filter ( in the backrow someone was wisphering all the time!

So far my PCM-M10 audio recorder has been a piece of cake and I ma having fun to learn how to audio edit/mix my recordings with the SoundForfe soft included in the package.
CA-11's>CA-9200>M10

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #348 on: December 29, 2009, 02:29:26 PM »
has any of you used the limiter function?

Manual says limiter prevents audible distortion if you don't go over 0 dB by more than 12 dB. I don't know about 12 dB but I made a quick test with my voice and it did prevent audible distortion and sounded OK as long as you weren't going over by a good bit. I suggest testing it on your home stereo.

I'm going to leave the limiter on, since it appears to help in some cases. Since I will try to set levels so that it shouldn't kick in at all, what's the harm in having it turned on? If I screw up and go over, it may help. However if you set your levels real high to try to compress your recordings (making the music not as much louder than the dialog), it's a sure bet to sound awful. You shouldn't try to use a limiter for this-you have to take care of this in post even though it could be a lot of work. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 05:10:00 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
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Offline CatScan

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #349 on: January 01, 2010, 08:26:26 PM »
Happy New Year!  :D
I'm new to this forum after having found it a few days ago when searching for an effective way to transfer "legacy" recordings (non Hi-MD) over to my computer rather than the time-wasting and quality degrading way of re-recording its ouput in realtime on the computer (or to pay $$$ for a new Sony MZ-RH1 Hi-MD recorder which will allow for digital transfers via Sony's SonicStage software).

I need something that just works instead of limiting my creativity, so a solid state recorder seems to be the thing for me, and so far the PCM-M10 seems to be the one to go for.
I'll be using it to record environmental/nature sounds, speech (interviews, lectures, my baby's first words etc.) for the most part.

I do however have some questions which I didn't find answers to earlier in the thread:

1) Voice activated recording:
The 5 second pre-record memory buffer will be most welcome for a variety of situations (like waiting for my kid to say something), but does the recorder also have a voice activated recording feature? That would fully "automate" a situation like that. I know that some other recorders have this function (Zoom H2 and H4n as far as I can remember), but none that have both.

2) Memory card types:
Why are people complaining about the use of Memory Stick Micro (M2) and Micro SD cards?
Are they inferior and unreliable compared to other types of memory cards, or is it just because people are afraid of losing them because of their minute size?
Since you can choose between two card types with the PCM-M10, should I go for a Memory Stick Micro or a Micro SD card?

3) Data transfer speed:
I read somewhere that transferring recordings to a computer takes ages. Is this true? Remember, audio transfers is what prompted me to put MiniDisc recorders behind me.
I was hoping a solid state audio recorder would be something like a digital camera (where transfers are really quick).
Does it make a difference (speed-wise) if I connect the PCM-M10 to the computer via USB or put its memory card into a USB 2.0 card-reader?

4) Firmware:
Is it possible to upgrade its firmware, in case Sony comes up with improvements or new features?
I see others have asked about this before, but nothing other than estimated guesses came up as replies.

5) Macintosh support:
I've been burnt by this in the past; Sony, as a manufacturer of PCs running Windows, haven't done much to support Mac users (more so to keep us away). The PCM-M10 is said to work with Macs as well as PCs, and I suppose that's just because the recorder happens to act as a "mass storage" unit via USB, right?
Will I run into any unpleasant (or pleasant!) surprises being a Mac user?
By the way, does it come with any Mac software at all? Sound Forge which is supplied with it certainly won't work on Macs.

6) "Pro" and "consumer" versions:
I read about the "pro" version (PCM-H10P) earlier in the thread and elsewhere, but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere. I did notice that it says "regional press release", being Asia/Pacific, so perhaps it's not a worldwide thing.
Anyway, a matt black recorder (pro) is much more desirable than the glossy black (consumer) version. Does anyone know if they've done anything about the painted silver on its sides which several people have complained about here, making it look "cheap"? Does the "pro" version come like that as well? And what about the price difference and availability?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 08:40:55 PM by CatScan »

Offline jamesmcn

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #350 on: January 01, 2010, 08:43:51 PM »
1) Voice activated recording:
The 5 second pre-record memory buffer will be most welcome for a variety of situations (like waiting for my kid to say something), but does the recorder also have a voice activated recording feature? That would fully "automate" a situation like that. I know that some other recorders have this function (Zoom H2 and H4n as far as I can remember), but none that have both.

As far as I know, there isn't a voice activated recording function. However, an 8GB card will give you 8 hours of recording time at 24bits and 44.1k, so you could just leave it recording all the time.

2) Memory card types:
Why are people complaining about the use of Memory Stick Micro (M2) and Micro SD cards?
Are they inferior and unreliable compared to other types of memory cards, or is it just because people are afraid of losing them because of their minute size?
Since you can choose between two card types with the PCM-M10, should I go for a Memory Stick Micro or a Micro SD card?

Historically, Sony's Memory Stick products have been much more expensive than competing technologies. Many people have cameras that use SD cards, so it would have been nice if Sony went with SD instead of MicroSD. I bought an 8 GB MicroSDHC card and haven't had any trouble.

3) Data transfer speed:
I read somewhere that transferring recordings to a computer takes ages. Is this true? Remember, audio transfers is what prompted me to put MiniDisc recorders behind me.
I was hoping a solid state audio recorder would be something like a digital camera (where transfers are really quick).
Does it make a difference (speed-wise) if I connect the PCM-M10 to the computer via USB or put its memory card into a USB 2.0 card-reader?

It is an exaggeration to say that USB transfers take ages. I find that transfers are noticeably faster when using a fast memory card adapter, but USB transfers aren't all that bad.

4) Firmware:
Is it possible to upgrade its firmware, in case Sony comes up with improvements or new features?
I see others have asked about this before, but nothing other than estimated guesses came up as replies.

Unknown.

5) Macintosh support:
I've been burnt by this in the past; Sony, as a manufacturer of PCs running Windows, haven't done much to support Mac users (more so to keep us away). The PCM-M10 is said to work with Macs as well as PCs, and I suppose that's just because the recorder happens to act as a "mass storage" unit via USB, right?
Will I run into any unpleasant (or pleasant!) surprises being a Mac user?
By the way, does it come with any Mac software at all? Sound Forge which is supplied with it certainly won't work on Macs.

I use my M10 with a mac. The M10 shows up as a mass storage device, exactly as you'd expect. The only issue I've run into is that Logic, SoundTrack Pro and Audacity all fail to see the track markers.

6) "Pro" and "consumer" versions:
I read about the "pro" version (PCM-H10P) earlier in the thread and elsewhere, but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere. I did notice that it says "regional press release", being Asia/Pacific, so perhaps it's not a worldwide thing.
Anyway, a matt black recorder (pro) is much more desirable than the glossy black (consumer) version. Does anyone know if they've done anything about the painted silver on its sides which several people have complained about here, making it look "cheap"? Does the "pro" version come like that as well? And what about the price difference and availability?

I suspect the only difference is the paint and the wind screen. I've got the glossy dark red M10, and no one seems to pay any attention to it.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #351 on: January 02, 2010, 03:28:45 AM »
I think people are afraid of losing the memory cards. If you buy a big one and leave it in the machine permanently, that wouldn't be a problem.

I almost lost mine:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.msg1717762#msg1717762

AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline CatScan

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #352 on: January 02, 2010, 09:34:06 PM »
1) Voice activated recording:
The 5 second pre-record memory buffer will be most welcome for a variety of situations (like waiting for my kid to say something), but does the recorder also have a voice activated recording feature? That would fully "automate" a situation like that. I know that some other recorders have this function (Zoom H2 and H4n as far as I can remember), but none that have both.

As far as I know, there isn't a voice activated recording function. However, an 8GB card will give you 8 hours of recording time at 24bits and 44.1k, so you could just leave it recording all the time.

Are there any recorders out there with both these features?

5) Macintosh support:

I use my M10 with a mac. The M10 shows up as a mass storage device, exactly as you'd expect. The only issue I've run into is that Logic, SoundTrack Pro and Audacity all fail to see the track markers.

That's disappointing, because track markers would, for me, be very useful.
Any Mac audio editing software which does support this? I assume it's fully supported in the Windows software that comes with the recorder though  :P

Offline jamesmcn

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #353 on: January 03, 2010, 12:56:05 AM »
That's disappointing, because track markers would, for me, be very useful.
Any Mac audio editing software which does support this? I assume it's fully supported in the Windows software that comes with the recorder though  :P

I usually just split the files in the M10 before transferring them. The naming scheme of the split files makes it easy to distinguish between components of an original take and other takes.

It must be possible to extract the markers out of the WAV file, I just don't know how to do it yet. (I haven't tried very hard)

Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #354 on: January 03, 2010, 07:13:12 PM »
Anyway, a matt black recorder (pro) is much more desirable than the glossy black (consumer) version. Does anyone know if they've done anything about the painted silver on its sides which several people have complained about here, making it look "cheap"? Does the "pro" version come like that as well? And what about the price difference and availability?

I think it was really only one person commenting on the silver...It might not be optimal, but it isn't a real concern either, in my opinion.  Sony had to cut some corners to hit the price range they were targeting...

As far as the matte/gloss thing goes, in Europe it seems the readily available version (without wind screen) is matte black.  Actually, I wouldn't really call it black, for that matter.  More of a dark grey.

3) Data transfer speed:
I read somewhere that transferring recordings to a computer takes ages. Is this true? Remember, audio transfers is what prompted me to put MiniDisc recorders behind me.
I was hoping a solid state audio recorder would be something like a digital camera (where transfers are really quick).
Does it make a difference (speed-wise) if I connect the PCM-M10 to the computer via USB or put its memory card into a USB 2.0 card-reader?

It is an exaggeration to say that USB transfers take ages. I find that transfers are noticeably faster when using a fast memory card adapter, but USB transfers aren't all that bad.

"Ages" might be an exaggeration, but it definitely isn't speedy.  As I mentioned a few posts back, it took me 28 minutes to transfer the data from a full 8 GB card.  Using a reader (actually, microSD > SD adapter > card reader), it only took 6m35s to transfer the same fileset...I usually only have a gig or two to move at a time, so the transfer rate isn't that much of a factor, but the USB speed is pretty slow.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 07:15:01 PM by aaronji »

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #355 on: January 03, 2010, 08:18:55 PM »
It must be possible to extract the markers out of the WAV file, I just don't know how to do it yet. (I haven't tried very hard)

Adobe Audition sees them and I assumed a number of other windows editing programs do also.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline CatScan

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #356 on: January 04, 2010, 05:03:10 AM »
Adobe Audition sees them and I assumed a number of other windows editing programs do also.

Yes, but as you say it's a Windows application and therefore won't work on my Mac  :(
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 05:09:05 AM by CatScan »

Offline tekdroid

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #357 on: January 06, 2010, 01:05:17 AM »
1) Voice activated recording:
The 5 second pre-record memory buffer will be most welcome for a variety of situations (like waiting for my kid to say something), but does the recorder also have a voice activated recording feature?
No it doesn't.

Since you can choose between two card types with the PCM-M10, should I go for a Memory Stick Micro or a Micro SD card?
I went with  MicroSD 'cause they're cheaper (and can easily be converted to the ubiquitous SD card with a simple adaptor if you want to re-purpose the card in a camera or whatever). Up to you, though. I'd imagine both would be identical as far as operation of the recorder is concerned (though I suppose you can get different cards in different speed grades which may make some minor difference with the speed of copying files over to/from computer).

3) Data transfer speed:
I read somewhere that transferring recordings to a computer takes ages. Is this true? Remember, audio transfers is what prompted me to put MiniDisc recorders behind me.
I was hoping a solid state audio recorder would be something like a digital camera (where transfers are really quick).
Your expectations are right.

Does it make a difference (speed-wise) if I connect the PCM-M10 to the computer via USB or put its memory card into a USB 2.0 card-reader?
Depends on the reader, I guess. But I think it would be minimal. Put it this way, it's very easy to forget MiniDisc and SonicStage after handling the PCM-M10 (at least as far as getting content on the computer easily and quickly). MiniDisc still has some nice things I would like to see in solid-state recorders, but for recording itself, you may end up thinking "What's a MiniDisc?" after using one of these.

4) Firmware:
Is it possible to upgrade its firmware, in case Sony comes up with improvements or new features?
I see others have asked about this before, but nothing other than estimated guesses came up as replies.
I doubt this would be possible (for the user), but you never know. Sony hasn't allowed any of their pro recorders to be user-upgradeable, as far as I am aware.

The PCM-M10 is said to work with Macs as well as PCs, and I suppose that's just because the recorder happens to act as a "mass storage" unit via USB, right?
Correct.

Will I run into any unpleasant (or pleasant!) surprises being a Mac user?
Not sure.

6) "Pro" and "consumer" versions:
Does anyone know if they've done anything about the painted silver on its sides which several people have complained about here, making it look "cheap"? Does the "pro" version come like that as well? And what about the price difference and availability?

*puts up hand at being one to complain about the silver paint*
The device itself is built solid, so don't get me wrong. Face of the unit is metal. Back and sides are all-plastic but it feels solid, not like it's about to fall apart or anything.

As a professional (or semi-pro) device, the market here doesn't need to be wowed with a faux silver finish, I reckon. Bumps and knocks and scratches tend to be far more evident on coated plastics. Then again I think they can also do without the bundled disposable batteries for the intended market, but those are just my thoughts, nothing more. They should have simply stuck with uncoated plastic for a pro device. Silver coatings are for kids toys (if that).

For me to be pretty vocal about this suggests that the main ingredients are indeed pretty darn good (and they are).

Some mysteries remain (like why Sony call a GREY unit a BLACK unit) but apart from that, things are excellent and I welcome Sony back to sanity with open arms. It is pretty much the recorder I dreamed about owning when I got my first MiniDisc unit in the nineties. I wanted no mechanical noise, uncompressed audio, heaps of storage, great battery life, good display with back-light and a pretty compact size. It took way too long but I welcome Sony back with enthusiasm and look forward to offerings in coming years.

*smaller size
*pocketable recording remotes that also do playback well
*instant start-up time

are the next logical progressions they should make, I reckon.

Smaller size. I want half the current size. It should be do-able, even if the battery life suffers a bit.

Instant start-up. Waiting 8 seconds or so for the recorder to initialise seems like it can really be improved, I reckon. Especially when you look at the advanced buffers DSLRs use. Instant or near-instant start-up would be great to catch those unexpected moments when the recorder is OFF.

Pocketable remotes. Think MiniDisc, except with a nice REC button (which most didn't have) and detachable short and long cables. I want to use the device as a killer playback AND recording device without compromise. Those flat card remotes...man, I just can't express too much love for them...

Those are my thoughts for the future.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #358 on: January 06, 2010, 06:44:18 AM »

*smaller size
*pocketable recording remotes that also do playback well
*instant start-up time
are the next logical progressions they should make, I reckon.

Smaller size. I want half the current size. It should be do-able, even if the battery life suffers a bit.

Instant start-up. Waiting 8 seconds or so for the recorder to initialise seems like it can really be improved, I reckon. Especially when you look at the advanced buffers DSLRs use. Instant or near-instant start-up would be great to catch those unexpected moments when the recorder is OFF.

Pocketable remotes. Think MiniDisc, except with a nice REC button (which most didn't have) and detachable short and long cables. I want to use the device as a killer playback AND recording device without compromise. Those flat card remotes...man, I just can't express too much love for them...

Those are my thoughts for the future.

I agree with you it's a great machine, but I don't need any of these things.

I wouldn't even want it half the size-might make the button layout cramped and hard to operate. Any recorder that is light in weight & slips easily into a shirt pocket is small enough for me. If it were half the size you might be forced to rely on the remote and I don't really care for remotes for recording functions myself (and if I did want one, it would have to show your levels and be able to adjust levels-not just start the recording). Since I only use the M10 to record bands, I don't need instant start up either. 
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Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW
« Reply #359 on: January 06, 2010, 10:09:12 AM »
It must be possible to extract the markers out of the WAV file, I just don't know how to do it yet. (I haven't tried very hard)

Adobe Audition sees them and I assumed a number of other windows editing programs do also.

You're looking for editors that will read the meta-data (sometimes referred to as iXML) which is where the cue markers are stored. On the mac, I think Wave Editor by Audiofile Engineering is one such editor that will, enabling the software to get them to show up is something that eludes me (but I normally use audacity and track everything in post).
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