Topic: Split Omnis (Recommendations and Advice)

[chinariderstl]

Hi, I'm starting to do some cursory research into a pair of split omnis.  I'm not looking to purchase anything immediately, but will likely pull the trigger in the coming months.

My budget is likely around $1000 (to maybe $1200 or so).  I'd like to strike a good balance between size (and weight) and sonic fidelity.  In other words, I want a really good sounding pair of mics (that I can marry with a pair of DPA 4022 cards), but size and weight is definitely a determining factor.  I have a working list of possible options (listed below), but I'd like to hear what opinions, suggestions, etc. you might have.

Right now, the following are atop the short list.  I like the size of the Audix mics, but find I'm leaning more to the DPA or AKG options.  The DPA 4060's seem really attractive given their price point and super small footprint.  The new DPA 2006C's also look pretty dope (and are definitely small), but they are a new product line and I'm unsure if they'd work for what we do.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or comments are appreciated.

# Audix M1250BO's ($800 pair)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648653-REG/Audix_M1250B_O_M1250B_O_Miniature_Condenser_Microphone.html

# DPA SMK4060 Set (DPA 4060's) ($950 pair)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/473506-REG/DPA_Microphones_SMK4060_SMK4060_Stereo_Microphone_Kit.html

# AKG CK62's (with Nbox Actives) (~$1000 pair)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/128245-REG/AKG_2231_Z_00220_CK62_Ultra_Linear.html

# DPA 2006C (~$1600 pair)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828114-REG/DPA_Microphones_2006_C_TWIN_DIAPHRAGM_OMNI_MIC_48V_COMPACT.html

Thanks, Chris.

[beenjammin]

It would be nice to hear a side by side comparison of the 4060 and the 2006. I'm a huge fan of the 4060. They render a lovely AB stereo with a very coherent image that handles transients very well. In this sense, I would call them clean and "fast." This assumes that you're above their noise floor, which isn't terribly hard to achieve in many recording situations. I'm sure you know that there are several folks making excellent classical recordings with this mic.

Do take a long look at the stereo set: it includes a number of nice accessories like the P48 adapter and the boundary layer option.

I believe that the 2006 uses the same capsule as the 4060. I think it is less noisy, but that's about all I know about it.

The C compact mic body is small but not as small as DPA's active cabling, which may be used with the new interchangeable line. I have a set of the active cables that I intended to use with the 4011 and the DPA ORTF mount but have never used them, as the handling and wind noise with this setup was too much of an issue with handheld effects/nature recording. This shouldn't be so much of an issue with the omni cap.

[aaronji]

I have been using the DPA 2006C stereo kit for several years now; I was told I got the first pair that went to a non-professional customer.  At the time I bought them, I was thinking of them as a stepping stone towards the 4006s, however, I think they sound so good that the next capsules I buy will either be 4015s or 4011s.  The compact bodies are very small; I think they are stealthable if you are so inclined.  For open taping they are preferable to the active cables, in my opinion, as you can use them with any XLR cables you want and any standard mounting hardware.  There is a recent Matisyahu recording I did with them on the LMA (there are a few others there, too, maybe a moe. and a Gov't Mule), if you are interested in rock in a large club type of situations.  Some MMW and a Wood Brothers still active on etree.  Maybe a Calexico on Dime.  If you prefer jazz, let me know, as I can provide samples of a number of bands that let me record but not share (The Bad Plus, a bunch of times, Omer Avital, Bill Carrothers, etc.).

I also have the 4060s, and I think they sound great, but they are a little noisier than the 2006s and half as sensitive.  In comparison, the 4060s are more truly omni and have slightly better bass extension; these differences might seem at first blush to make the 4060s better, however, for the type of recording I do, I find the 2006s have a bit better stereo feel to them and a bit less thump.  Of course, there are tons of 4060 recordings out there, but I have samples of them too, if you need some...

[chinariderstl]

Killer, I didn't know anyone was running the DPA 2006C's in the field.  I am leaning heavily towards those.  They're a little above the initial budget, but I'd rather pay more upfront and reap the benefits in the long run.

If you can share any recordings, I'd love to hear them.

[aaronji]

Some of them are easy, just search "aaronji" on etree or LMA; these were all done with 2006C > Aerco MP-2 > M10.  Make sure they are the 2006 recordings as there are some with the 4060s too.  The Snarky Puppy on LMA isn't a great example, as it was from the far away balcony in a notoriously boomy room.  If you are more interested in some jazz (where they really shine, I think), PM me an e-mail address and I will WeTransfer you some tracks.

[chinariderstl]

Killer man, thanks!

And I'll definitely ping you for copies of the jazz shows you taped.

Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated!

[Gutbucket]

I'd recommend whichever ones have a size/shape/connection/powering-requirement which allows you to space or otherwise place them ideally.. and from which you can get a sound you like.   

If you can't space them optimally because of their size/weight/cabling, or can't run a spaced config because the required support bar and cabling required resembles an highway overpass in it's bulk -  with you essentially erecting a big middle finger to all those behind - then another mic which may have less technical provenance but which you can place and space optimally, and use without guilt or causing hard-feelings, wins.

The need to space them apart appropriately is the biggest constraint on selecting the right omnis IMO, and makes for a more severe requirement than the nicety of smaller actives in typical near-spaced configs where small and light is nice, convenient and compact, but not really required.  For me that's the beauty of the DPA 4060/4061 and rules out anything much larger or heavier, such as anything with a full sized XLR connection at the mic.  The boundary adapters make them versatile in other ways too.  For me they are the most versatile mics I own, and because of that I own more of them than any other mic.

I've considered the 2006C, but even that is heavier and requires full-sized XLR connections which would not allow me to space them 6' apart, nearly invisibly, using a single stand like I can do with the miniatures.  Plus I can run the 406x and not worry about humidity or even them getting rained directly upon.  I find 4060 is quieter than the noise floor of all performance halls I've been in for live classical and acoustic jazz, although it is probably not quiet enough for studio recording.  4061 is what I use for loud PA outdoor stuff, where the noise floor doesn't matter and it's sensitivity is a better match for some downstream gear.  Countryman B3 is the right size and weight, but doesn't get there for me.  I simply can't get the sound I want out of them, even after EQ manipulation.  I've never tried the Nevatons which I might like, and which may work for me as their XLR connection is remote.

After EQing, the differences between omnis which do work for me become far more minimal, given the they can be used in the same config.  Sure there is a sonic difference moving up to really outstanding omnis, but it is often less than the difference of moving to a more optimal recording position and/or mic spacing.  And if you plan to use the omnis in combination with another pair of mics and/or matrix with a SBD, those sonic differences become considerably less detectable than when used alone as a single stereo pair.

Practicalities trump minor sonic differences at some point, but only you can determine that threshold.

[chinariderstl]

Thanks Gutbucket, I appreciate the input. I definitely have some homework to do.

At least initially, I was thinking of picking up this A/B bar.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/657121-REG/Grace_Design_SB_100_SB_100_Spacebar_Modular_Microphone.html

[Gutbucket]

Great bar.

For omnis which require the support it provides, used on their own as a stereo pair, where minimal visual impact concern isn't critical, that's pretty much perfect.  It won't work for me because it wont put the mics as wide as I'd like when using spaced omnis in combination with other mics placed in the middle of the bar, and it's just too imposing visually.  But I don't think there is a higher quality bar available.

[chinariderstl]

But I don't think there is a higher quality bar available.

Awesome, that's what I like to hear! 

[acidjack]

^ There's a (much) cheaper Manfrotto bar that is equally sturdy, a bit less sexy profile. $80 vs. $300 or whatever. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/503258-REG/Manfrotto_154B_154_Triple_Microphone_Holder.html

[voltronic]

Here's the best comparison of DPA mics you're ever going to hear.  I recommend you download the FLACs and give a good listen on monitors and headphones:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/da/MikrofonUniversitet/StereoTechniques/stereo-recordings.aspx

For me, the ranking is clear:
1. 4006
2. 4060 (but not by much)
3. 2006

This page is what totally sold me on wanting a pair of 4060s.

[chinariderstl]

Here's the best comparison of DPA mics you're ever going to hear.  I recommend you download the FLACs and give a good listen on monitors and headphones:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/da/MikrofonUniversitet/StereoTechniques/stereo-recordings.aspx

For me, the ranking is clear:
1. 4006
2. 4060 (but not by much)
3. 2006

This page is what totally sold me on wanting a pair of 4060s.

Awesome, thanks!!

[aaronji]

^ There's a (much) cheaper Manfrotto bar that is equally sturdy, a bit less sexy profile. $80 vs. $300 or whatever. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/503258-REG/Manfrotto_154B_154_Triple_Microphone_Holder.html

That's what I have been using.  It's only 66 cm, though, versus the meter of the Spacebar.  I would love to get the Grace, but I haven't found any European options yet.

Here's the best comparison of DPA mics you're ever going to hear.  I recommend you download the FLACs and give a good listen on monitors and headphones:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/da/MikrofonUniversitet/StereoTechniques/stereo-recordings.aspx

For me, the ranking is clear:
1. 4006
2. 4060 (but not by much)
3. 2006

This page is what totally sold me on wanting a pair of 4060s.

For one recording in one setting, perhaps.  I have both 4060s and 2006s and have had the privilege of doing some comps via DPA and I can assure you the only (near) constant is that the 4006 is usually the best.  The circumstances make a big difference; as I mentioned previously, the extra directionality of the larger 2006 can be beneficial, as can the increased sensitivity and slight low-frequency roll-off.  Of course, let your experience be your guide.

[Hypnocracy]

I'll put my set of Avenson ST0-2 omni's up against any other omni...and for $550 for a Stereo Pair...pocket the cash I saved vs a pair of DPA's

http://avensonaudio.com/sto2/

Note the scale on this graph...ONE db