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Offline harmon712

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built in preamps
« on: March 30, 2016, 02:32:59 PM »
I'm thinking about trying to save money for a Sound Devices 702.  What other recorders have good built in preamps for a lower price to look into?

Right now I use Marantz PMD620 MKII with a Naiant Tinybox and sometimes mics straight into a Zoom H4n (mostly at festivals or if I want to run both recorders)

Thanks for any info
Mics: Neumann KM184 & Busman BSC1
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-3 & MixPre-6
Stand: Triad-Orbit T3 w/ T-ES Elevator Shaft
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R500
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Bag: Gruv Gear Club Bag, AmazonBasics Large DSLR Gadget Bag & Sound Devices CS-3

Online aaronji

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 04:12:16 PM »
If you like the PMD620, maybe consider a PMD661 (perhaps with an Oade mod). The menu systems are almost identical. I don't have one, but know a bunch of tapers that love theirs, and have thought about picking one up several times...

Offline H₂O

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 08:43:22 PM »
There is no guarantee you will like the preamps in the SD7xx series and there are ALOT of decks out there today with both more than acceptable preamps built in or you can find modded with "better than stock" preamps at a better price point than the 7xx series.

I bought a SD 702 in 2007 and sold it in under a year because I couldn't stand the preamps with my various setups.  The v3, eaa, and Schoeps preamps I owned where leaps and bounds better sounding IMO.

Now I run a Tascam hs-p82 and couldn't be happier (although the Sonosax SX-AD8+ has caught my eye - now I just need to save up ;)) - I still own my EAa, a Grace prototype, and a Schoeps pre as well though.
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Offline harmon712

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 02:17:21 AM »
If you like the PMD620, maybe consider a PMD661 (perhaps with an Oade mod). The menu systems are almost identical. I don't have one, but know a bunch of tapers that love theirs, and have thought about picking one up several times...
If I decide to go with the the PMD661 who does the Oade mod?
Mics: Neumann KM184 & Busman BSC1
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-3 & MixPre-6
Stand: Triad-Orbit T3 w/ T-ES Elevator Shaft
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R500
Photo: Canon T3i w/ Sigma 18-50mm & 50-150 f/2.8 lenses
Bag: Gruv Gear Club Bag, AmazonBasics Large DSLR Gadget Bag & Sound Devices CS-3

Online aaronji

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 03:44:33 AM »
Oade Brothers Audio. Doug (Oade) will also modify decks purchased elsewhere, which wasn't always the case.

Offline harmon712

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 04:02:43 AM »
Oade Brothers Audio. Doug (Oade) will also modify decks purchased elsewhere, which wasn't always the case.
Yep, I just found out and came back to say so.  Thank you

Here's a direct link if anyone else is interested http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OBA&Product_Code=PMD661CM-GND&Category_Code=PMD661CM
Mics: Neumann KM184 & Busman BSC1
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-3 & MixPre-6
Stand: Triad-Orbit T3 w/ T-ES Elevator Shaft
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R500
Photo: Canon T3i w/ Sigma 18-50mm & 50-150 f/2.8 lenses
Bag: Gruv Gear Club Bag, AmazonBasics Large DSLR Gadget Bag & Sound Devices CS-3

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 04:15:55 AM »
I'm a fan of the Tascam DR-70D! The issues are all worked out and you just need to update the firmware to v1.13 and then use an approved SD card[or ones we've been using successfully on ts.com], and you should be good to go! They can be had for under $300/new, or under $200/used! Its has 4 XLR/1/4" combo jacks[Phantom Powered Inputs, as well as a regular MIC-IN w/ out Phantom, and a LINE-IN] and is a BREEZE to run with an external USB battery!

I have run both my mk41>KCY>VMS02IB>70d and mk4>PFA>70d preamps, numerous times over the last year, and I can BARELY hear a difference in my Schoeps pre and the 70d! As always, YMMV! I have numerous recordings on archive.org that you can check out with BOTH preamps of mine! And most often, especially outdoors, I prefer the mk4>PFA>70d source 8) My Phish MMP Night 2, I ran both setups as usual, and not only myself, but the DL'ers, preferred my mk4>PFA>70d source ;D

For the price/size/quality of preamps, there's nothing else even comparable IMO! And now with the new v1.13 firmware, everyone's sd card issues have gone away! I have run flawlessly on even older firmware, since last summer when I got my PNY Elite SD Cards! Once everyone started using the same SD cards, the issues and "Write Timeout" errors seemed to vanish too! As with most devices, its just picky about what SD cards it likes ;D

I JUST sold my last M10 and bought a 2nd 70d + 64gb PNY Elite 95MB/s Class 10 card, because I like my 1st one so much :) My new to me[12 hours of use] used 70d will be here today! I'll be running it almost 24/7 to see if its as SOLID as my 1st one 8) And the external USB batteries are super easy to get and power the 70d for very long periods, even at 24/96 on all 4 channels 8) And they run forever going VMS>XLR>70d LINE-IN on just 2 channels, even at 24/96!

Here's my most recent bookmarks from the last 5 years 8) You can easily find the different sources since I left a comment on every UL with the source info :) You should find a ton of mk41>KCY>VMS02IB>70d and mk4>KCY>PFA>70d sources very easily :)

http://archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 04:20:09 AM by F.O.Bean »
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Online aaronji

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2016, 04:31:21 AM »
I'm a fan of the Tascam DR-70D! The issues are all worked out <snip>

I wouldn't bet on that, particularly.  Given the history, I would personally be extremely reticent to buy a 70D.  I am happy it seems to be working for you, and others, but that's not where I would look for a new recorder... 

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 05:32:15 AM »
I guess a Zoom F8 would be cheaper than a used 702! Check out the Zoom F8, if having 8 channels isnt overkill :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1140426-REG/zoom_zf8_f8_field_recorder.html

If I didn't need [2] separate decks for recording 2 stages at festies[why I have [2] Tascam 70d's], Id invest in a Zoom F8 most likely!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 05:35:24 AM by F.O.Bean »
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline acidjack

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 07:45:03 AM »
The short answer is for recording rock bands from the audience, most of them are going to be pretty close these days, even inexpensive decks. I do think the Zoom F8's are a bit quieter than some of the other things I've owned, but not so much so that I'd spend the extra money just for that reason. Personally I loved my Sound Devices preamp, but didn't need it anymore when I got the Zoom. Preamps aren't exactly a "snake oil" product, but given the variabilities and general limitations of recording rock bands from the audience, which is what most of us are doing, I don't know that I'd place a lot of stock in having one vs. the other.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline todd e

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 11:06:56 AM »
The v3, eaa, and Schoeps preamps I owned where leaps are bounds better sounding IMO
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 12:04:22 PM by todd e »

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 11:18:56 AM »
Oade Brothers Audio. Doug (Oade) will also modify decks purchased elsewhere, which wasn't always the case.
Yep, I just found out and came back to say so.  Thank you

Here's a direct link if anyone else is interested http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OBA&Product_Code=PMD661CM-GND&Category_Code=PMD661CM
Just to further this: I own a OADE Concert Mod PMD661 and have liked the quality of the Pre-amps quite well. Doug will ask you what mics you use and suggest a mod which will work best for them.
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Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2016, 12:14:25 PM »
Oade Brothers Audio. Doug (Oade) will also modify decks purchased elsewhere, which wasn't always the case.

And last time I looked, Doug was selling mod 661s for 549 shipped. That's insanely cheap. I paid 699 for both of mine. I'd buy one for sure if I didn't have two. All you need and IMO better sounding than SD 7xx.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 12:19:31 PM »
I'm a fan of the Tascam DR-70D! The issues are all worked out <snip>

I wouldn't bet on that, particularly.  Given the history, I would personally be extremely reticent to buy a 70D.  I am happy it seems to be working for you, and others, but that's not where I would look for a new recorder...

I'm in agreement with aaronji on this; no offense to those who are having a good experience with the 70D and think highly of it.  As of today, there appears to be a new wrinkle with certain USB cables not working with it. > http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175623.msg2182522#msg2182522
If you must have a 4-track Tascam recorder, the DR-60D is a bit more reliable but there are only two XLR inputs. 

All that said, the Marantz PMD661 and Zoom F8 suggestions are both very good ones.  The PMD661 can be had new (non-Oade) for under $400, and if you need the 8 channels the F8 is about $1k.  At that price range, I'd also suggest the 4-track Roland R-44 which has a very proven history in the field. 

Offline harmon712

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Re: built in preamps
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 12:53:12 PM »
I'm going to save for the PMD661.  Thank you  ;D
Mics: Neumann KM184 & Busman BSC1
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-3 & MixPre-6
Stand: Triad-Orbit T3 w/ T-ES Elevator Shaft
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R500
Photo: Canon T3i w/ Sigma 18-50mm & 50-150 f/2.8 lenses
Bag: Gruv Gear Club Bag, AmazonBasics Large DSLR Gadget Bag & Sound Devices CS-3

 

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