Topic: Windscreens. Go big or go small?

[StarkRavingCalm]

So is using the BAS and dead rats\muppets overkill or does their combination really make a difference?

Also, I find this to be a concern as i generally don't EQ anything in post (partially cause I suck at it).
Is there any way to negate the high frequency cutover without incurring wind noise?

The high-frequency cut from using bigger windscreens and/or fur does matter however and is easily noticeable, but is more or less completely reversible with the appropriate EQ correction.

[goodcooker]

there were pretty good gusts coming from the rear.

Don't eat that festival food, dude....

[acidjack]

So is using the BAS and dead rats\muppets overkill or does their combination really make a difference?

Also, I find this to be a concern as i generally don't EQ anything in post (partially cause I suck at it).
Is there any way to negate the high frequency cutover without incurring wind noise?

The high-frequency cut from using bigger windscreens and/or fur does matter however and is easily noticeable, but is more or less completely reversible with the appropriate EQ correction.

I think rats + big ass shures is overkill other than in the most extreme situations.

FWIW, all "rats" are not created equal, either... Just because you see some fur doesn't mean it's actually effective.

There's no way to get around the HF cut -- even more transparent windscreens like Schoeps B5D do it to a degree. EQing for it isn't that hard. As a general rule of thumb, adding back +2dB somewhere between 7-8kHz on up does the trick -- but you can also listen and tell for yourself.

Indoors I run without screens sometimes, though you have to REALLY know the venue and its HVAC and be sure it's a louder show....

[Gutbucket]

ajack covered it well, while I was typing..

The high-frequency cut from using bigger windscreens and/or fur does matter however and is easily noticeable, but is more or less completely reversible with the appropriate EQ correction.

So is using the BAS and dead rats\muppets overkill or does their combination really make a difference?

Also, I find this to be a concern as i generally don't EQ anything in post (partially cause I suck at it).
Is there any way to negate the high frequency cutover without incurring wind noise?

In that case I wouldn't suggest using both together unless you really need to.

Bright sounding mics can compensate somewhat. Fatter screens and dense fur roll off more top end than small screens.  It's not difficult to EQ, a shelf filter somewhere up around 10Khz is probably all that's needed.  For the exact frequency point and gain, adjust by ear, or if you don't trust your playback system or your ear in an absolute sense, adjust until it sounds about the same as a similar recording of yours which you like the sound of that was made without the fat screens.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

I can answer this from experience, NO adding dead muppets to the DPA's [0896] is not as effective as BAS's [A81WS]. I'll only use DPA's indoors after getting hit with wind noise using them outdoors with muppets.

I concur with DigiGal on this.  For some time I used the DPA 0896 screens with Tim's "Dead Muppets" outdoors and the combo appeared to work well against wind noise.  The problem that arose, and this is not a knock on Tim as he makes a good product at a great price, is that the fur on the "Muppets" eventually lost their effectiveness as they got a little matted and stiff due to exposure to the elements, age, etc, and no amount of cleaning and combing brought them back to their original effectiveness.  I believe the Rycote solution to this in their Windjammers and Softies is to use a proprietary fur that's supple and less prone to matting, but as a result you will pay a premium for it. 

Now that I'm using the BAS's there's no question, to me, that they work a little better than the DPA/Muppet combo.  The drawback is that the BAS's do seem to attenuate some of the higher frequencies while the DPA's are slightly more transparent; a trade-off for wind resistance. 

Somewhat tangential, has anyone compared the BAShures to the Rycote softies?

That's the million-dollar question and I've posed it myself in other threads.  Having never used Rycote's Classic Softies or Windjammers, I'm definitely interested to see how they stack up against the BAS's in handling wind and how the high-frequency attenuation compares.  Very much looking forward to your comp, tonedeaf.

[dactylus]

Outdoor festies with wind on the radar.

 

[Gutbucket]

Any collective word on treating windscreens with water-repellent?

I've treated my BAS and other outdoor windscreens with water-repellent silicone spray intended for fabric in the past.  It doesn't make them heavy rain-proof, but light sprinkles bounce off and mist beads on the surface instead of soaking in, and if they do get damp they are easier to squeeze dry with a paper towel and don't remain wet.  I usually treat them and let them dry a day or so before use, just to avoid any potential problem of damp silicone somehow effecting the mic capsules.  Not sure if doing that is important or not, but better safe than sorry.

Probably a good idea for treating furries as well, and may possibly mitigate some tangling and matting in fur prone to that.

Ideally I'd like an improved all-weather BAS with a sonically transparent waterproof membrane under a surface layer of thin hydrophobic foam or short fuzz.  The outer layer serving to damp the impact of raindrops like the old towel atop the umbrella technique.

[voltronic]

Sounds like a cool idea, bit could be tricky.  The first thing that comes to mind is a material like Gore-Tex, which is waterproof but gas-permeable.  That doesn't mean it's acoustically transparent though. 

What about something that just shields the top, like the Rycote Duck rain shield, but cheaper and satisfying your DIY tendencies?   I'd be all in.

[Gutbucket]

I'd much prefer the water barrier (and raindrop thump-noise mitigation layer) combined in the windscreen itself, rather than a separate add on thing- roof shingle, cocktail umbrella or whatever.   That way it's always ready, even used in pretty much any orientation, without any additional setup.  No worries if the weather turns mid-set.  The outer fabric of the Rycote Super Softy may be sort of along those lines.

[voltronic]

Yeah, I don't like the idea of a separate piece to pack / forget / lose either.  Maybe instead of an outright liquid barrier, the coating just needs to be extremely hydrophobic so it sheds moisture immediately, not even having the chance to soak in.  It sounds like you're doing that already with silicone spray, but you're looking for something that performs better / faster.  Maybe this would work: http://www.neverwet.com/

I think the Super Softie (or better yet the much cheaper Movo clone) is going to be better candidate for this type of thing than the BAS screens because of the type of foam and the fabric coating. 

I'm not too far away from DuPont HQ - maybe the wizards down there have something that fits the bill.

[Gutbucket]

Wow.  Might give that stuff a try.  Yeah I'm sure the DuPont chem jockeys have something along those lines, they probably developed that stuff. 

[acidjack]

I'd add that the most effective I've found yet was actually a cheaper solution -- the Movi fur windscreens. Put more specifically, I was outdoors, on a stand, with an umbrella. Winds and rain were so high that I had to physically hold the stand to keep it from flying over. There's no wind noise on the recording. There is some HF cut... again an unavoidable side effect of running furry or giant windscreens.

[voltronic]

I'd add that the most effective I've found yet was actually a cheaper solution -- the Movi fur windscreens. Put more specifically, I was outdoors, on a stand, with an umbrella. Winds and rain were so high that I had to physically hold the stand to keep it from flying over. There's no wind noise on the recording. There is some HF cut... again an unavoidable side effect of running furry or giant windscreens.

Are these the ones you have?  I've heard great things about them.

Here are their Super Softie clones.  I'm thinking of getting a set, but I'm wondering if others can share exactly what the benefits of the actual Super Softie is over the regular furry Softie.  Bean has a set but I don't think he's used them much yet.

What I using right now is the Rode WS8, and they worked extremely well for me last marching band season, even in high wind gusts on top of a stadium press box.  (The poor colorguard members!)  They have the "springy" type of plasticy open-cell foam under the fur layer, and a rubber ring to seal against the mic body.  Zero shedding from the fur also.

[dactylus]

The NeverWet link looks very intriguing. 

It would be interesting to sonically compare a treated vs non-treated windscreen in dry and wet conditions to hear the effect, if any, of the NeverWet solution on the transparency of the windscreen.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Here are their Super Softie clones.  I'm thinking of getting a set, but I'm wondering if others can share exactly what the benefits of the actual Super Softie is over the regular furry Softie.  Bean has a set but I don't think he's used them much yet.

Additionally, I would want to know if Movo's Super Softie clone is based on the earlier "defective" Rycote model or the updated/fixed version?  DigiGal's post in this thread from last July (#14) makes mention of it and Rycote's admission of a defect.  Link to other thread > http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171449.0

As for the regular Movo furry, the model/size would depend on the size and model of mic that it would be for.  In conversations with acidjack, he steered me toward the Movo WS50 3cm model for my Milab VM-44 Links (which are "active" sized; he generally uses Schoeps actives) and the fit is perfect.  My first outdoor concert with them isn't until later this month so I won't know how well they work until then.  I'd think that the WS80 6cm model you linked to, Volt, might be a better fit on larger or full-bodied SDCs. 

On an interesting side note, the 3cm size furry is unique to Movo; to the best of my knowledge, the smallest Classic Softie that Rycote makes is the 5cm (similar to Movo's 6cm).