Topic: Alternatives to Grace design stereo bars sb30 and sb60

[n3mmr]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

 

[flipp]

SuperLux MA90, see the following topics for a link to manufacturer's site (first link) and pics of the bar and how one Tser modified it (second link).

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=134782.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=135108.0

[mfrench]

nothing says affordable like DIY with left-over scrap stock.

My Axis-Reference stereo bar design:

[John Willett]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

[dactylus]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

[flipp]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

John, thanks for the reminder of the Shapeways mounts. With my old-timer's disease I had forgotten about them.

dactylus, seems the A53 Shure donut has been the most popular but the mounts also have been reported to work in Schoeps A20 mounts.

thread by the designer http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.0

[lsd2525]

Those mounts do look sweet.......

[n3mmr]

The Shapeways clips do look like very quick to set up, but you must settle for one of the few standard arrangements, and I want to be able to set up any reasonable combination of distance and angle.

I discovered the Superlux ma-90 is on sale at Thomann for the EU.

So I've ordered two of those. Can't wait to see them irl!

[pohaku]

You can find the MA-90 for @ $89 including shipping in the US. Pretty good deal at that price.  I have one on order.

[John Willett]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

You use a standard mic. clip for a 19mm diameter microphone.

The Shure or Gefell donut suspension is also good.

[voltronic]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

You use a standard mic. clip for a 19mm diameter microphone.

The Shure or Gefell donut suspension is also good.

Or Rycote INV mounts - see pics: http://www.shapeways.com/product/F9QV4WQ7A/wide-ortf-cm3?li=user-profile&optionId=57166218

[dactylus]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

You use a standard mic. clip for a 19mm diameter microphone.

The Shure or Gefell donut suspension is also good.

Or Rycote INV mounts - see pics: http://www.shapeways.com/product/F9QV4WQ7A/wide-ortf-cm3?li=user-profile&optionId=57166218

voltronic thanks for the link - I definitely like the Rycote INV mount option for the Shapeways!

[n3mmr]

I got my two superlux t-bars today, and... They're not very well made at all!
The mike mount clamps are quite unstable, the distance markings are in no known measurement system and not quite symmetrical. The distance detent marks are not evenly placed and aligning a microphone to face straight forward when your selected mark is front facing is not very easy.

Also, you can't attach extra clamps.

And the centre mount does not go through, so no way to have several bars above one another.

I think it can be fixed.

The distance markings can be learned, the excessive wiggle room can be filled with spacers and washers, and the spring loaded detent balls can be removed.

The calibration could be fixed by putting appropriately compressible washers between mic holder and bottom ring, so one could have about a ¼ turn with little change of force.

Or is this a dead end?

[dream]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Get the Shapeways mounts for your combinations 

Excellent, inexpensive, and you can rig a perfectly aligned stereo pair in seconds.

They do ORTF and DIN arrangements tailord to the exact mic. - as the mic. is set by aligning the back of the mic. with the back of the clip, you get the perfect alignment of both angle and distance every time.

If your mics are not shown, contact the designer who will do one for your mics and add it to the list.

Oh - and I do agree that the Grace are the best - I have both a 30 and 66 myself - but these clips are so *very* easy, accurate and cheap.

Thanks for the interesting link.  How do you attach these clips to a mic stand?

You use a standard mic. clip for a 19mm diameter microphone.

The Shure or Gefell donut suspension is also good.

Or Rycote INV mounts - see pics: http://www.shapeways.com/product/F9QV4WQ7A/wide-ortf-cm3?li=user-profile&optionId=57166218

The photos were done by me for Shapeways and the idea to use the Rycote INV mounts was obvious in a way. I also use the Rycote INV to hold a heavier setup of Double ORTF and IRT Cross mounts. For a tighter fit Shapeways offers a clip extension which increases the diameter too.
http://www.shapeways.com/product/5A4MCFWEK/24mm-x-80mm-clip-extension?li=shop-results&optionId=56674529

[John Willett]

I really like how the SB30 and 60 look.

And the microphone mounts in these kits, with angle indicators built in, just what the doctor recommends....

They're a bit expensive, however, so I wonder if there are any good alternatives doing at least almost the same job, for a poorer amateur's use.

Microtech Gefell now do a long stereo bar - 57cm wide - with the possibility of joining two together with a jointing piece to make a 120cm bar.

They have distance markings at 1cm and 5cm intervals.

[voltronic]

^ I had seen those Gefell bars on your site before, John.  They look great, but they are very expensive.  According to the price list on your site: £149 for the 57cm; £392 for 120mm!!!   I suppose that's not all that different than the Grace Spacebar though.

This is not a criticism of you at all, but of manufacturers such as Gefell, Schoeps, DPA, etc. charging for shockmounts, stereo bars, etc. as though they are custom-machined bespoke items.

[if_then_else]

There are also these two alternatives.

• http://www.stereoschiene.ch/index.php?section=01_00
• http://shop2.mikrofonschiene.de

Not really much cheaper than the Grace space bar (i.e. 250.- CHF for the Swiss mic bar).
The second option appears to be a bit more affordable  - but depending on your specific requirements you might also end up in the region of >200.- EUR.

In any case I'd prefer an easily transportable, modular solution that could also be used for gigs out of town. From my point of view these high-end bars are more geared towards recording studios.

[voltronic]

Someone posted this one elsewhere, and I have seen it used quite frequently by posters on Gearslutz: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/503258-REG/Manfrotto_154B_154_Triple_Microphone_Holder.html

I use one of followinbob's 24" wide mic bars when I do a wider spacing or a Faulkner II array, and the quality is excellent.  He has said he is no longer going to be making anymore products though...

Finally, here are the most egregiously priced stereo bars I have seen yet:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/619947-REG/Schoeps_MAB_1000_MAB_1000_A_B.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/446763-REG/Schoeps_UMS_20_UMS20_Universal_Stereo_Mounting.html

[dream]

Someone posted this one elsewhere, and I have seen it used quite frequently by posters on Gearslutz: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/503258-REG/Manfrotto_154B_154_Triple_Microphone_Holder.html

This Manfrotto mic holder is fantastic - I have two of them and I use them very often with heavy tripods. It can hold even very heavy microphones. You need a special bit for preventing unwanted rotation.

[John Willett]

^ I had seen those Gefell bars on your site before, John.  They look great, but they are very expensive.  According to the price list on your site: £149 for the 57cm; £392 for 120mm!!!   I suppose that's not all that different than the Grace Spacebar though.

This is not a criticism of you at all, but of manufacturers such as Gefell, Schoeps, DPA, etc. charging for shockmounts, stereo bars, etc. as though they are custom-machined bespoke items.

The 120cm one is so expensive because it is. in fact, *two* 57cm bars plus a joining strip.

Plus made in small quantities and, as with most things, you have to build in a distributor and retailer margin.

They are, in effect, almost a custom made bespoke product because the sales quantity is so small.

All the quality mic. manufactures charge similar prices for these things - and it's only because thay cost this amount to manufacture and sell.  If it could be done cheaper and retain the quality, they would do it.

[voltronic]

^ I had seen those Gefell bars on your site before, John.  They look great, but they are very expensive.  According to the price list on your site: £149 for the 57cm; £392 for 120mm!!!   I suppose that's not all that different than the Grace Spacebar though.

This is not a criticism of you at all, but of manufacturers such as Gefell, Schoeps, DPA, etc. charging for shockmounts, stereo bars, etc. as though they are custom-machined bespoke items.

The 120cm one is so expensive because it is. in fact, *two* 57cm bars plus a joining strip.

Plus made in small quantities and, as with most things, you have to build in a distributor and retailer margin.

They are, in effect, almost a custom made bespoke product because the sales quantity is so small.

All the quality mic. manufactures charge similar prices for these things - and it's only because thay cost this amount to manufacture and sell.  If it could be done cheaper and retain the quality, they would do it.

Thanks for your reply, John.  You raise some good points, especially regarding the economy of scale aspect of this.  It's very similar to the Nagra battery discussion going on here and the other recording forums, although I think your argument is more valid in that case because of the engineering of that part vs. items like we're discussing here.

Pardon me if I sound cynical, but for items like these Gefell bars I do believe the small quality leading to high prices is a bit self-perpetuating by design.  In other words, while a larger manufacturing run and associated increase in materials, manufacture and distribution would drive up costs initially, selling higher volumes would eventually drive up profits even as it drives down the customer's price.  That's if they decided they really want to sell more of these accessories, which they probably don't.  But keeping these items in small runs adds to their exclusivity and cachet, which in turn allows for them to keep the price high.