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Author Topic: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar  (Read 7405 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« on: April 19, 2016, 06:54:12 PM »
So I'd run the caps in the bar, caps pointed up, right?  ::)
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Offline dnsacks

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 07:00:23 PM »
a din-a bar should be similar to a ortf bar (but longer and with narrower angles) -- you could run them up (they'd angle out diagonally) and adjust the angle manually.  However, like schoeps 4vs on an ortf bar, the intent would be to run them pointing back (as if you were taping the back of the room with front address capsules) and angle the 4v capsules so they're facing out (and forward) this would give you fixed spacing and angle

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 07:35:16 PM »
So that's preferable to vertical?
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 08:32:35 PM »
You should get a vert bar with 17cm and 20cm spacing's.  With a vert bar, the 4V top would be pointing straight up.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=161593.0


......with a standard DINA bar, the top of the mk4V would be where the front grill of a mk4 would be.  So you would run a DINA bar backwards to create the proper angle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          STAGE


               mk4v                                                    mk4
          \\\\\\ //////                                      \\\                    ///
      ///                \\\                                     \\\                ///
    ///                    \\\                                       //////\\\\\\
   
   
Do the stick figures make sense??   :P
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:24:32 AM by Snowman »
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 08:47:38 PM »
Thanks!
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 07:38:34 AM »
So I'd run the caps in the bar, caps pointed up, right?  ::)

Brian (it-goes-to-eleven) produces a V-Bar for Schoeps.  He makes a DIN / DIN(a) bar that allows both configs with one bar as well as ORTF.  I have that bar and it is well made and recommended!

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=161593.0


Email activemicrophones@gmail.com to order, or send a PM.

The Vertical bars (VBars) feature spacing for both DINA and DIN, also allowing ORTF and other angles.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 07:44:10 AM by dactylus »
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 12:07:05 PM »
Thanks, just PMed Brian.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 12:57:04 PM »
I'm not sure how Brian's V-Bars work,  but just a reminder that the common TS method of running side-address mics like 4V horizontally and backwards on a 90-degree angle bar specifically intended for one particular configuration (mics attach to bar with no adjustment of angle or spacing like a Kwon bar or a Schoeps STC 4g bar) works because of the 90 degree angle between microphones remains 90 degrees when the bar is flipped around.  The spacing between capsules may be off a bit, but I'm not sure of that.

This technique will work using a DIN, DIN-A, or NOS bar of that type, all of which are standard configs with a 90 degree angle between mics, but the same will not work with an ORTF bar of that type.  When run that way, the 110 degree ORTF angle between mics becomes 70 degrees instead. (110-180 = -70)
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 01:45:23 PM »
Thanks Gutbucket, that makes sense. Trying to reconfigure my brain backwards. Don't want to pull a Zman.  ::) ;D
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 04:38:24 PM »
Ha!  Was just taping with Z last weekend but with the square furies on his mics I can't confirm if they were actually pointed forwards or backwards! 

I usually have one or two mics pointed backwards intentionally, yet this last weekend I used up all the analog channels on my deck with one mic pointed forwards and five pointed directly sideways!  Granted, two of those sideways pointed mics were omnis and one was a figure-8 forming a Mid/Side pair with the forward pointing one, but still, it just seems so awesomely ridiculous to have 5 pointing sideways and only one pointing at the stage.  :P 

The other two sideways facing mics were supercards, used in a setup where mk41V is the preferred mic of choice due to it's very even far-off-axis pattern behavior across the horizontal plane when oriented verticallydue to the side-address capsule housing arrangement.  Mk41V is preferred because the microphones are intentionally pointed so far off-axis to the source that their 90-degree off-axis response becomes more important than their on-axis response, and the mk41V is supposedly superior in that situation to even the end-address mk41 which has excellent polar control compared to other mics.   Yet end-address Gefells and DPAs have work just fine in that roll for me, so who knows how much it really matters.  Maybe I'll find out someday.

I've never used Schoeps 4Vs or 41V, but it seems to me that running them vertically would make it easy to adjust angle without changing spacing between capsules, yet make it rather difficult to accurately visually confirm that angle, with confirmation becoming essentially impossible once the windscreens go on.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2016, 12:02:22 AM »
I've never used Schoeps 4Vs or 41V, but it seems to me that running them vertically would make it easy to adjust angle without changing spacing between capsules, yet make it rather difficult to accurately visually confirm that angle, with confirmation becoming essentially impossible once the windscreens go on.

This is true, it isn't much of a problem if you use the it-goes-to-eleven vertical bars, the polar pattern icon on the top of the microphone can be used to point it, and they don't move when you put the windscreen on.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 03:06:58 AM »
Ive been liking the idea of running 41V vertical with DINa/DIN/ORTF spacing, and then running my mk4s front address but at DIN/NOS configs horizontally, with just ONE bar :) Now I've seen Brian aka it-goes-to-eleven do something very similar, so I know he'd make me that bar :) Now I just need the 41V's haha ;D But I would probably buy a Rycote INVHG-mkiii shock since its meant for heavier loads than my INV6-HG shocks, and be done with it! I think the Rycote INVHG-mkiii shock could handle all [4] caps + the bars weight + windscreens weight! Would be pretty cool and very minimalistic and lo-pro/unobtrusive 8) Wishful dreaming I guess lol ;D

But I agree, one of Brian's V Bars would be perfect and possibly all you would need! You could ask Brian to make you just ONE bar, like I was talking about above, so you could run the 4V's vertical in DINa/DIN/ORTF, AND the 41's DIN/NOS with the same bar! Brian could confirm whats possible with the vertical and front address configs/spacings for just ONE bar! Otherwise, Id get [1] V Bar for your 4V's, and [1] DINa bar for your mk41s ;)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline dactylus

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 07:23:40 AM »
For those of you running 4v's or 41v's what windscreens would you use that would provide a suitable pocket of "dead air' surrounding the capsule vs the traditional end address capsules and the pocket of dead air directly in front of the capsule when placed in a windscreen?

Indoors I don't envision a problem here, outdoors could be another matter entirely if using "heavy foam & fur", vertically oriented, active mics.  The traditional windscreens that we use would not provide an "open pocket of dead air" for these vertical, (side-addressed) capsules.

Here is one expensive solution:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=745935&gclid=CNXXt9KZrMwCFQ6maQodpIsLWQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C91438732682%2C&A=details&Q=


« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 07:47:12 AM by dactylus »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline dactylus

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« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 10:53:50 AM by dactylus »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Running Schoeps 4v on din-a bar
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 01:16:01 AM »
For those of you running 4v's or 41v's what windscreens would you use that would provide a suitable pocket of "dead air' surrounding the capsule vs the traditional end address capsules and the pocket of dead air directly in front of the capsule when placed in a windscreen?

Indoors I don't envision a problem here, outdoors could be another matter entirely if using "heavy foam & fur", vertically oriented, active mics.  The traditional windscreens that we use would not provide an "open pocket of dead air" for these vertical, (side-addressed) capsules.

Here is one expensive solution:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=745935&gclid=CNXXt9KZrMwCFQ6maQodpIsLWQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C91438732682%2C&A=details&Q=




That's my dream windscreen setup right there :) Or [4] of the BBG's/WindJammers :) I already have the INV6 Lyres too! Maybe one of these days I can afford [2] of those stereo windshield kits, since I mainly run DINa/DIN/ORTF, those would be perfect for me! Although they're meant for ORTF[I think] mainly & M/S, so I wonder if there would be enough space to run DINa/DIN, since the caps would sit up further up in the windshield running 90* compared to running ORTF@110* ???

Dactylus, do you think the Stereo Windhsield Kits would be better than the single BBG/WJ method for what I do, since they would allow my whole setup to be windshielded ??? Seems like a single BBG/WJ on each [4] of my caps would be better overall, but I have zero experience with them, and you do ;)

EDIT: I LOVE the Duck Rain Cover too! I would feel sooo much more comfortable with all of that in those super shitty conditions haha ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 01:19:29 AM by F.O.Bean »
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

 

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