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Author Topic: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present  (Read 5561 times)

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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« on: December 08, 2016, 02:01:33 AM »
Apparently I am getting a Christmas present from Sweetwater, and have a choice in the matter!  It will be a new pair of mics, something I can't afford myself, and likely the last mics I'll get for some time.  I am considering a wide variety of mic options and could use some feedback from those with experience since I don't have access to test drive any of these.  I already have a set of Studio Projects C4 (omni & Cards), pair of AKG 460 (ck61 caps), and CA-14 cards.  I typically open record in bars and small-mid size venues.  Also do 3-4 festivals per year.  Outdoors I run my SP C4's split omni (3ft) and AKG 461's PAS or XY.  I am torn between the AKG 314 (since I have wanted a multi-pattern pair of LD's for a long time) and the SD hypercardioid mics (since I need hypers to cut through the crappy rooms).  I know the Rodes are sort of long (shotguns), but the David Nelson shows on the LMA sound really nice.  I record all sorts of music.  Recent examples include Greensky Bluegrass, TAUK, Hard Working Americans, The Motet, Leftover Salmon, The Wood Brothers, Dopapod.

-Akg 314 matched pair
-Rode NTG3 pair
-Telefunken M62 pair
-Neumann SKM 185 pair

I realize this is a VERY wide open and subject topic with lots of variables.  I'm not looking for a "right" answer, just some quality insight from those with experience with the equipment and advise on the best direction given what I already have and my recording genre.  Thanks
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 02:54:54 AM by CorFit Chris »
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 02:59:27 AM »
welll... Sweetwater limits what you can get... so that's a start.
Budget?

will you be running multiple mics...at once? to one multi-track recorder
You might try shotguns... and mix or bleuind them with omnis or cards in post... not a fan of shotguns for music. but the Rode NTG3 pair might be fun to try.
LD's might add more options in you locker

The 314's could work well for you.

try these...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SE4400aSP

good luck have fun...
determine what you like ain your current mics and what you don't like and what you seek to flavor or color , or make transparent in your sound and recordings...
then you will complement your existing options
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 12:29:59 PM »
welll... Sweetwater limits what you can get... so that's a start.
Budget?

Sweetwater is where my girlfriend got a financing card, so that is my option.  The budget is approx $1700

will you be running multiple mics...at once? to one multi-track recorder
You might try shotguns... and mix or bleuind them with omnis or cards in post... not a fan of shotguns for music. but the Rode NTG3 pair might be fun to try.
LD's might add more options in you locker

I will typically be running multiple mics, likely 2 pairs with an occasional sbd.  I typically run everything into my Tascam dr-680 mkii.  Though in the future I may experiment with an external preamp for coloration value.  I certainly want something that has a hypercard/supercard option to cut through some of the boomy/loud rooms and crowd noise.  I am not sure how well the LD's will work for this.  I guess the question would be, will the Telefunken M62 or Neumann skm185 be worth the investment as hypercards?  The Telefunken has transferrable caps, while the Neumann does not.  While price is ~similar, should I expect a real sound difference (better/worse/color)?  And, would they be any better than the Rode NTG3 shotgun? 

I imagine I will use the hypercard in most every recording situation, and add in my AKG 461 cards or SP C4 omni's as a 2nd pair.

The 314's could work well for you.

try these...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SE4400aSP

good luck have fun...
determine what you like ain your current mics and what you don't like and what you seek to flavor or color , or make transparent in your sound and recordings...
then you will complement your existing options

I have been reluctant in purchasing new LD's because I am unconvinced of their practicality in normal recording.  Sure, they offer fun and diverse options, but how often will I want to mess with them.  Also, I was advised to experiment with a used, less expensive pair (for example: ADK-TL's) before plunging into more expensive ones.  Again, I really need something that offers a more narrow polar pattern to complement my current cards and omni's.  I just thought someone may shed light on whether a LD with supercard option could effectively serve that purpose while still allowing options for other patterns.  Otherwise, I should stick with an SD or Shotgun option.

And yes, has she asked me first I would have steered her towards B&H!  At least I get to pick my toy!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 12:33:59 PM by CorFit Chris »
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 04:18:42 PM »
Sounds like you know whatg you want...
SD hypers, or shotguns.
Since you'll be running other mics to blend, I'd go with some shotguns as you note to cut through the crowd. Personally I'm not a fan of hyper card mics, I don't like the generally hollow  thin sound they produce. With   one exception are the MK41's I generally always like the recording they are made with them.
Sweetwater has excellent service and support.

I'd look at http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NTG4 and http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NTG4Plus
they are 20 to 20k  instead of 40-20k like on the Rode NTG-3B and can handle 135db instead of 130db


there is always http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMIT5U out of the price range... I know.
and http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMC641Set
OR get a pair of these http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MK41g
 then some nbob cables with PFA's later on...  still too pricey but  a fun thought...
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 05:54:21 PM »
^
Good options and advice (I'm not familiar with the Rode 'guns though so I can't really comment there, but I've heard positive reports from other users FWIW).

Of those options I'd lean towards a pair of Mk41 in one form or another as I feel you'll get the most flexibility out of a pair of quality super/hypers.  As Archival notes, the selection is more limited and price-of-entry higher for a really good sounding SD hyper than for other patterns, yet the high directivity which makes it a problem solver in questionable acoustic environments also in my experience makes it one of the most useful patterns for multiple microphone configurations.   IMHO, the Microtech Gefell M21 hypercardioid capsule (M210 with amplifier body) is on-par with the Schoeps Mk41, but unfortunately Sweetwater doesn't carry MG.   As another potential super/hypercard option, I'm pretty sure Sweetwater carries DPA.  You might look into the DPA 4017, which I've not heard or used but has the potential to be of similar quality to MK41 / M21.  It's only been available for a few years, so not many around here have used them.  All those options are pricey though.

I'd love to try a Schopes CMIT5U , or a DPA 4018 as a single forward facing center mic in my multi-microphone arrays (where I currently use an MG M210 or DPA miniature 4098H), yet I also use my super/hypers in lots of other applications where I wouldn't use an interference tube (shotgun) mic. Also, although an appropriately designed multi-microphone array can cover some of the faults of less than stellar super/hypercards which become more obvious when used alone as a straight stereo pair (bass extension primarily, off-axis smoothness secondarily), there is a quality threshold which still needs to be exceeded, and when used as a simple stereo pair alone there is no substitute for quality hiding the shortcomings.  So some less costly hypers can work in multi-mic arrays without major sonic handicaps yet aren't as good as a simple stereo pair, where a top quality pair will work everywhere.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 11:11:22 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 12:52:18 PM »
^

Of those options I'd lean towards a pair of Mk41 in one form or another as I feel you'll get the most flexibility out of a pair of quality super/hypers.  As Archival notes, the selection is more limited and price-of-entry higher for a really good sounding SD hyper than for other patterns, yet the high directivity which makes it a problem solver in questionable acoustic environments also in my experience makes it one of the most useful patterns for multiple microphone configurations.   IMHO, the Microtech Gefell M21 hypercardioid capsule (M210 with amplifier body) is on-par with the Schoeps Mk41, but unfortunately Sweetwater doesn't carry MG.   As another potential super/hypercard option, I'm pretty sure Sweetwater carries DPA.  You might look into the DPA 4017, which I've not heard or used but has the potential to be of similar quality to MK41 / M21.  It's only been available for a few years, so not many around here have used them.  All those options are pricey though.

I'd love to try a Schopes CMIT5U , or a DPA 4018 as a single forward facing center mic in my multi-microphone arrays (where I currently use a super/hyper), yet I also use my super/hypers in lots of other applications where I wouldn't use an interference tube (shotgun) mic. Also, although an appropriately designed multi-microphone array can cover some of the faults of less than stellar super/hypercards which become more obvious when used alone as a straight stereo pair (bass extension primarily, off-axis smoothness secondarily), there is a quality threshold which still needs to be exceeded, and when used as a simple stereo pair alone there is no substitute for quality hiding the shortcomings.  So some less costly hypers can work in multi-mic arrays without major sonic handicaps yet aren't as good as a simple stereo pair, where a top quality pair will work everywhere.

Yes, I would like to move up to the Schoeps level, but my total limit is under $2000 and needs to be from Sweetwater.  I will likely Always use the hyper/super cards in pair with another pair of cards or omni's, so I'm not as worried about how they sound on their own.  I just want a great option to pair and improve my current setup. 
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 12:57:48 PM »
So, if being used as 2nd pair with AKG 461's, which would you choose?  Telefunken M62 or Neumann SKM 185       Why? 

Remember, for the sake of this discussion I am not worried about the interchangeable cap option of the Telefunken, just sound quality and ability to compliment the AKG's. 

How about Rode NTG3 vs NTG4?  their specs are different. 
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Offline BonoBeats

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2016, 10:42:39 PM »
Telefunken hypers directly into a 680mkii at the Fillmore, a few weeks back (skip the first tune, as it suffers from severe PA issues):

I'd choose these over the Neumann's, paired with the AKGs. I find the low end doesn't roll off quite as much; they sound a bit warmer to my ears (maybe it's because of the transformers?). And if you have a $1,700 card, you're not too far off from the selling price of the stereo Masters kit.

https://archive.org/details/LOS2016-11-26.Fillmore.Denver.TelefunkenM60.Flac16



« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 10:45:37 PM by BonoBeats »
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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 04:23:40 PM »
I know this won't help but it's fun to entertain the thought. see the yardsale
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=179967.0
Quote
$575  |  nBob > PFA
I purchased this set this past September from Dustin (Caymanreview).  It came to me looking new and unused and then I never used them as I am still on the hunt for some MK caps.  I opted to buy some KCY > PFA so I can use a Lemosax that is sitting idle.  The only thing that I did was wrap both parts with 1/4" Techflex for protection.
Pics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0v7sayxny1dd6un/2016-11-16%2007.13.49.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/24ahv4f5teijn8n/2016-11-16%2007.13.53.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9gtk5sa4x772a6/2016-11-16%2007.13.28.jpg?dl=0

I know it's not at sweetwatewr...

order a pair of these   Schoeps MK 41 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MK41g new at   $755.00 each would come in at  $1510.
 Get something else at sweetwater for someone else and have them give you the cash and get the nbob pfas...

they are so tempting to me... but not at the right time...
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2016, 12:14:11 PM »
I know this won't help but it's fun to entertain the thought. see the yardsale
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=179967.0
Quote
$575  |  nBob > PFA
I purchased this set this past September from Dustin (Caymanreview).  It came to me looking new and unused and then I never used them as I am still on the hunt for some MK caps.  I opted to buy some KCY > PFA so I can use a Lemosax that is sitting idle.  The only thing that I did was wrap both parts with 1/4" Techflex for protection.
Pics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0v7sayxny1dd6un/2016-11-16%2007.13.49.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/24ahv4f5teijn8n/2016-11-16%2007.13.53.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9gtk5sa4x772a6/2016-11-16%2007.13.28.jpg?dl=0

I know it's not at sweetwatewr...

order a pair of these   Schoeps MK 41 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MK41g new at   $755.00 each would come in at  $1510.
 Get something else at sweetwater for someone else and have them give you the cash and get the nbob pfas...

they are so tempting to me... but not at the right time...

So...what do you want from Sweetwater?  lol

I like where you are going with this, but not in the cards right now (no pun intended).  I will eventually get an active setup, but not until I can afford to get exactly what I want.  And I don't know what that is yet (Schoeps, Milab, Neumann).   On a side note, is it true that active setups do not need phantom 48?  I am seeing them powered by Naiant IPA.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 01:32:03 PM »

I would get the Telefunken M62 set. All the recordings I've heard with the Telefunkens sound great.

You can fill in with the cardioid and/or omni capsules later for variety...
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 04:54:22 PM »

I would get the Telefunken M62 set. All the recordings I've heard with the Telefunkens sound great.

You can fill in with the cardioid and/or omni capsules later for variety...

I'm trying out the Rode NTG3 guns paired with my AKG 461's.  If not satisfied, They will take them back and order the Telefunken M60 Master Set.  Unless, I dig up some extra $ first to buy the NBob/PFA in the Yard Sale and order the Schoeps MK41's from Sweetwater.  May have to skip a car payment.   :shrug:
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2016, 01:56:11 AM »

I would get the Telefunken M62 set. All the recordings I've heard with the Telefunkens sound great.

You can fill in with the cardioid and/or omni capsules later for variety...

I'm trying out the Rode NTG3 guns paired with my AKG 461's.  If not satisfied, They will take them back and order the Telefunken M60 Master Set.  Unless, I dig up some extra $ first to buy the NBob/PFA in the Yard Sale and order the Schoeps MK41's from Sweetwater.  May have to skip a car payment.   :shrug:
Great news! ... I like where the solutions have landed...Glad you have some  optimistic resolution.  Check out the guns, and have the M60 Master set in the hip pocket... I doubt you'd go wrong with the Telefunken's...  I'd almost start there... but as you wan tot complement... try out the  NTG3's.
sorry for  any distractions to your decisions...

Have fun!
--Ian
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2016, 12:44:00 PM »
Yes, the bottom line is I am limited in my options given the need to finance and the company available is Sweetwater.  Oh, and my $1700 limit.  Ultimately, I want two sets of actives (card & Super/hypercard).  My interests are between Milab VM44-link (supercard), DPA 4018 (supercard), or Schoeps MK41.  None of these options are available at the moment given my limited access to resources.  I'm sure this is a struggle everyone here knows all to well. 

The NTG3's may compliment well with what I already have, and provide assistance for specialty situations in the future.  Where as, the Telefunkens may put me in a tough spot of limbo since I don't think there is an actives solution for them and their level of quality and expense may prevent me from seeking in the future what I truely desire.  I can always get active cables (what ever they are) for my AKG caps, and then bite the bullet on a top quality set (Milab, DPA, Schoeps) later when my resources improve.  Damn hobby :angry2:
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
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Offline larrysellers

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 01:00:38 PM »
You should look at the Rode NT6. You would be able to use the capsules from the Studio Projects C4 set you already own.

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 09:43:49 PM »
You should look at the Rode NT6. You would be able to use the capsules from the Studio Projects C4 set you already own.

That's interesting.  Don't know about these.  I'd have to think about their application in my rig.  Anyone think a Studio Projects C4 HyperCard would sound worthy with a quality preamp?  Mini Me?
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2016, 05:08:06 PM »
If you want these for taping, then what you're presently missing is a good set of hypers. Those Neumanns are kind of "special purpose" in terms of their rather severe rolloff at the low end. I'm not saying that as a bad thing; I think it gives you a very distinctly different flavor than the other stuff you have.

I wouldn't buy shotguns for taping.
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Offline Craig T

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2016, 05:23:03 PM »
Beyerdynamic MC950 supercard stereo set?  Looks like Sweetwater carries the MC930 cardiod set.  Maybe they can special order the supercard set.
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Offline pohaku

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 12:27:07 AM »
If you want these for taping, then what you're presently missing is a good set of hypers. Those Neumanns are kind of "special purpose" in terms of their rather severe rolloff at the low end. I'm not saying that as a bad thing; I think it gives you a very distinctly different flavor than the other stuff you have.

I wouldn't buy shotguns for taping.

Agreed.  I have guns and they really are a special purpose mic.  Rarely used.  I think you would be far better off with a good pair of hypers.  I use my hypers almost as much as my cards.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201, um70S; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh30, mkh40, md421, md431, md541; audix m1290
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Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters/monitors: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, zoom f8 & F8n pro, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8, Neumann KH20


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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 11:21:08 AM »
Ok, seems to be resistance to shotguns.  So, if I am to get AKG 414 pair, do I go XLS or XLII?  Only opinions I found on it was from a long time ago when most already has XLS before the other came out.
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Re: Would appreciate feedback on mic options for Christmas present
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 05:29:17 PM »
Consider some of the advantages of SDs over LDs for super/hypers (and cards too)..

>Smaller lighter package, and end-addressed instead of side-addressed (more taping friendly)
>Better pickup pattern control across the full frequency range (superior performance in typical stereo near-spaced microphone configurations; and LD's loose pattern control at low frequencies where they become more omni-ish, which tends to be where a tight pattern becomes advantageous in "boomy rooms")
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