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Offline rigpimp

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Tinybox alternative?
« on: December 10, 2017, 04:53:37 PM »
I don't normally  >:D much but find that I have been doing it more and more since moving home and starting to record rap shows.  These mostly have disgustingly high SPL's and the Tinybox distorts even set on low.  It does this enough that I want to replace it. 

I'm open to opinions on options.  I am initially thinking IPA or Baby Nbox.  I am unsure what else is really available.  I need it to be small, clean, and not need battery changes mid-show.

Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
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Offline achalsey

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 05:39:11 PM »
Off topic but; how do the recordings usually come out (besides current distortion issues)?  Are they generally mixed well?

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 06:06:36 PM »
Usually they are very bass heavy but nothing that cannot be adjusted in post.  I was actually pretty surprised how well my pull from last night turned out.  I'm realizing that after years if recording I don't have a lot of talent on an EQ.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 06:41:34 PM »
Jon is back to work on his ipa units. I should be receiving mine for xmas soon. I was looking at both options myself and from the feedback I got I went with the ipa. Small, discreet (fits in palm) and has gain unlike the bnbox - so going line in intead of mic in. If using a small deck (pcm10, ro5, etc) you don't need to depend on their small pres. Jon cutomizes units for your specific mics and also cables to run to your specific deck. His stereo design also works for 2 mics with only 1 ipa now.

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 08:31:20 PM »
Jon is back to work on his ipa units. I should be receiving mine for xmas soon. I was looking at both options myself and from the feedback I got I went with the ipa. Small, discreet (fits in palm) and has gain unlike the bnbox - so going line in intead of mic in. If using a small deck (pcm10, ro5, etc) you don't need to depend on their small pres. Jon cutomizes units for your specific mics and also cables to run to your specific deck. His stereo design also works for 2 mics with only 1 ipa now.

Any idea on price on the IPA?  He did the custom tiny box I have so I'd just send my tinybox and cables and ask him to match it up.  It's just a 5-pin locking binder.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline perks

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 11:56:24 PM »
If the source is distorting your tiny box at the lowest gain setting (mine is only +4db at lowest setting) and your recorder isn’t adding additional gain why wouldnt the IPA distort as well in the same situation?r
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 03:56:05 AM »
Jon is back to work on his ipa units. I should be receiving mine for xmas soon. I was looking at both options myself and from the feedback I got I went with the ipa.

Any idea on price on the IPA?  He did the custom tiny box I have so I'd just send my tinybox and cables and ask him to match it up.  It's just a 5-pin locking binder.
The 2 channel/stereo version to run my mbho caps was $119. I forgot the y cable price. Email Jon details on the mics and deck you are running and he will message you backa week or two later with the configuration(s) you need. Then go to the Naiant Site make your selection and place the order. Turnaround is estimated at 3 weeks.

Offline eman

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2017, 11:04:03 AM »
You do know that the switch goes hi-lo-med from top to bottom? I haven't gotten any distortion on the low setting, but medium doesn't cut it for even moderately loud shows. I'm sure you're right, but just wanted to rule everything out. I know I need to put my reading glasses on and get some decent light to figure it out. I usually run my M10 on 10 input volume and a normally loud show hits -12dB so I think the input attenuation is pretty high.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 11:06:35 AM by eman »
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 12:24:25 PM »
Oh yah, fully aware of the switch.  I just recorded a rap concert Saturday night with the Tinybox on low, M10 at 3-4 with peaks on/near the black dot.  Unsure if that is -6 or -12 off the top of my head probably -12 since WAV files are really -12 to -18 ish.  Bass hits were so hard it is distorted.  These are Schoeps CCM4 so I'm hoping it is not an SPL issue.  This is a custom tinybox that provides low power to run the CCM series.  You can read about it here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141814.0


 
You do know that the switch goes hi-lo-med from top to bottom? I haven't gotten any distortion on the low setting, but medium doesn't cut it for even moderately loud shows. I'm sure you're right, but just wanted to rule everything out. I know I need to put my reading glasses on and get some decent light to figure it out. I usually run my M10 on 10 input volume and a normally loud show hits -12dB so I think the input attenuation is pretty high.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline perks

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 05:25:15 PM »
Was the rap group playing with a live band? Or was the bass a sample they played on a loop?

Any chance we could see the wav form? I’m curious because I’ve run into something similar but I didn’t think my pre was clipping.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline dallman

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 05:51:00 PM »
From my memory, because I cannot recall having distortion issues, and I also understand sometimes we just cannot look at our gear, but the TinyBox LED does turn red when clipping at least that is what I recollect.
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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 07:31:22 PM »
I don't normally  >:D much but find that I have been doing it more and more since moving home and starting to record rap shows.  These mostly have disgustingly high SPL's and the Tinybox distorts even set on low.  It does this enough that I want to replace it. 

I'm open to opinions on options.  I am initially thinking IPA or Baby Nbox.  I am unsure what else is really available.  I need it to be small, clean, and not need battery changes mid-show.

If you want to test out the baby nbox let me know.  We can arrange that.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 08:05:36 PM »
I have an IPA for my schoeps nbob KCY system. It works great and was very inexpensive. I can't tell any sonic difference between it and my littlebox.

If you give Jon the information about all the other associated gear, I'm positive he can create what you need.

Nick also makes wonderfull stuff, so between the two you really can't go wrong.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 10:59:59 PM »
I don't normally  >:D much but find that I have been doing it more and more since moving home and starting to record rap shows.  These mostly have disgustingly high SPL's and the Tinybox distorts even set on low.  It does this enough that I want to replace it. 

I'm open to opinions on options.  I am initially thinking IPA or Baby Nbox.  I am unsure what else is really available.  I need it to be small, clean, and not need battery changes mid-show.

If you want to test out the baby nbox let me know.  We can arrange that.

I'll send you a message.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline pohaku

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2017, 11:12:23 PM »
If you need a different gain structure for your TB, you might ask Jon if he can change it to meet your needs.  I recollect that different gain settings could be selected when ordering, so I suspect they could be changed if you want.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh30, mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, grace V2, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8


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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 11:57:40 PM »
Was the rap group playing with a live band? Or was the bass a sample they played on a loop?

Any chance we could see the wav form? I’m curious because I’ve run into something similar but I didn’t think my pre was clipping.

No squared off waveform.  I'm not sure I would specifically call this "clipping".  I'm happy to post the waveform and samples though. 


From my memory, because I cannot recall having distortion issues, and I also understand sometimes we just cannot look at our gear, but the TinyBox LED does turn red when clipping at least that is what I recollect.

I know the light turns green when the unit is powered up but it stays in a belt case while recording so I never look at it.  Since it has a fixed gain structure I set it and forget it.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 12:14:41 PM »
Was the rap group playing with a live band? Or was the bass a sample they played on a loop?

Most rap acts that I have seen use only a DJ but the rappers I have seen with a live band:

Common this past August played a full band.  Bass, guitar, 2 keys, drummer, flute and multiple vocalists.  J. Cole was a guest and played about 4 songs.

Last night Vic Mensa (Chicago) played with a 2 person band (one dude on keys and the other on guitar, drum machine, sampler) and he opened for JayZ who played with a full live band which included two drummers and AT LEAST 2 keyboards.  They were hard to see as it was a round center stage and then were recessed into the stage and in one of four pods.

OC: My Tinybox seemed to do OK given the organ shattering bass during some of Mr. Carter's tunes.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10
Playback: McIntosh MC2105 > McIntosh C39 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Tinybox alternative?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 05:33:32 PM »
If you need a different gain structure for your TB, you might ask Jon if he can change it to meet your needs.  I recollect that different gain settings could be selected when ordering, so I suspect they could be changed if you want.
The ipa can be set to a single or 3 gain settings (0,9,18db) via slot or spindle. Jon customizes each order - why it takes 3 weeks.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 12:19:55 AM by MBHOTAPER »

 

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