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Which file's sound do you prefer?

"file 1"
8 (21.6%)
"file 2"
22 (59.5%)
No difference or equal quality
7 (18.9%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp  (Read 5032 times)

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Offline noahbickart

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mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« on: January 07, 2018, 12:10:37 PM »
Hi everyone:

Andyjah and I ran some identical Schoeps rigs this Phish NYE Run, and I thought others might want to compare. In the following, the only variable was the Micpre/AD stage. The rigs were as follows:

Andyjah: Schoeps mk22> nbob actives> Naiant PFAs> Sonosax SX-R4 (24bit/96khz)
Noahbickart: Schoeps mk22> nbob actives> Naiant PFAs> Sound Devices Mixpre6 (24bit/48khz)

The microphones were on the same stand, inches apart from one another in identical rycote shockmounts. Each of us used a 60° angle, and 30cm spacing, on Shapeways 3d printed bars. You can see the bar and the pattern via the pictures below.

Andy's file was downsampled to 48kHz, and the files are level matched and normalized. New member and new (schoeps) taper wforwumbo did the 96kHz> 48kHz conversion, and level matching. He disguised the files from me, so I don't even know which is which.

So here is "Tweezer" from 12/30, from both rigs:
File 1: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cRJR6iAtcIOW4B2CFLOVDU-clPV2KmvP
File 2: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YYYvD1eqLFE78PnmJvb29TebvXRTKWlV

Please vote!!!

I'll reveal the sources via PM
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 01:05:06 PM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 12:54:58 PM »
I didn't get such a good rig picture the night of this comp, but this is from night one:
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline wforwumbo

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 01:55:01 PM »
Just a quick tech note for those of you who may care about these things:

The downsampling of Andy’s tape was done using XLD, with the VHQ minimum phase setting (I find linear phase option for VHQ resampling creates too much of a group delay lag which to my ear is audible, even for perfect ratio 2x downsampling). Level matching and normalization (the latter of which I suspect I shouldn’t have done) as well as ID3 tag wiping were performed in Logic Pro 10.3; both raw files were within 1 dB-FS of each other before level matching, I didn’t check after normalization.

If any of you are critical of any of these steps, let me know and I’ll re-process the files if I agree with the criticism.
(2x each) Schoeps mk4, Schoeps mk21 -> nbob KCY -> Naiant PFA -> Sound Devices Mixpre 6

Online rippleish20

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 02:44:52 PM »
I would be interested in hearing a sample of both recordings later without manipulation. I recognize the 96 versus 48 would give it away, but things like downsampling and normalization can change the sound. (perhaps after the voting is done)
MK22's / MK41's / MK41v's (for sale) / MK4v's  (for sale) /  AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers  / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (two, for sale) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 03:15:55 PM »
I would be interested in hearing a sample of both recordings later without manipulation. I recognize the 96 versus 48 would give it away, but things like downsampling and normalization can change the sound. (perhaps after the voting is done)

Andyjah: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=597091
Noahbickart: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=596987

You can select the Tweezer from each torrent to compare the original files.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline heathen

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 05:11:07 PM »
There should be a "I can't hear a difference between them" voting option.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | Line Audio CM3s | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 05:15:06 PM »
resample them both to 44.1 to even the field
Looking forward to hearing these.
Thanks
Audio Engineer - Steve Kimock Productions


Schoeps CMC6/MK4 & AKG C460b/CK8
Lunatec V2  > Sound Devices 744T

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 05:20:59 PM »
There should be a "I can't hear a difference between them" voting option.

Done.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 07:06:18 PM »
Such a big difference
Audio Engineer - Steve Kimock Productions


Schoeps CMC6/MK4 & AKG C460b/CK8
Lunatec V2  > Sound Devices 744T

Offline danlynch

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 09:42:06 PM »

Option 2 seemed to me to be noticeably better.  Not sure why, but the sound was just more pleasant and cleaner.
Founder and Host of NYCTaper:  http://www.nyctaper.com

Microphones:  Schoeps CCM4Us, Sennheiser MKH-8040s, Neumann KM-150s, Neumann TLM-102s, DPA 4061s, Audio Technica 4051
Recorders:  Sound Devices 744t, Edirol R-44 (Oade Concert Mod), Edirol R-05
Pre-Amps, D/A's:  Apogee Mini-Me, Grace Design V3

My Recordings on Archive.org: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/danlynch

Offline fanofjam

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 09:55:15 PM »
To me they both sound fine.  The first sample seems to have better low end saturation, but the second has better presence.  So I went with 'no difference'. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:57:54 PM by fanofjam »

Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 03:10:11 PM »
I look forward to listening and comparing both recordings.  Someone has already expressed my thought regarding what may or may not have been done with the recordings.  EQ?  Normalization? Etc.?  They should both be the same characteristics for a fair comparison.  Personally, I'd like to hear them completely raw, with the only alteration being to edit them to be the same bit/sample. 
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 05:18:35 PM »
I look forward to listening and comparing both recordings.  Someone has already expressed my thought regarding what may or may not have been done with the recordings.  EQ?  Normalization? Etc.?  They should both be the same characteristics for a fair comparison.  Personally, I'd like to hear them completely raw, with the only alteration being to edit them to be the same bit/sample.

Nothing was done to either recording except the sample rate conversion and level matching.

I never touch my 24bit filesets anyway.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 05:31:57 PM »
I look forward to listening and comparing both recordings.  Someone has already expressed my thought regarding what may or may not have been done with the recordings.  EQ?  Normalization? Etc.?  They should both be the same characteristics for a fair comparison.  Personally, I'd like to hear them completely raw, with the only alteration being to edit them to be the same bit/sample.

Nothing was done to either recording except the sample rate conversion and level matching.

I never touch my 24bit filesets anyway.

shouldn't have to :)
Audio Engineer - Steve Kimock Productions


Schoeps CMC6/MK4 & AKG C460b/CK8
Lunatec V2  > Sound Devices 744T

Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 06:34:50 PM »
I look forward to listening and comparing both recordings.  Someone has already expressed my thought regarding what may or may not have been done with the recordings.  EQ?  Normalization? Etc.?  They should both be the same characteristics for a fair comparison.  Personally, I'd like to hear them completely raw, with the only alteration being to edit them to be the same bit/sample.

Nothing was done to either recording except the sample rate conversion and level matching.

I never touch my 24bit filesets anyway.

shouldn't have to :)

Charlie, I couldn't agree more!  Personally, I do not alter the sound in any way.  All I do (my edits) is raise the levels , because I record conservatively when live, track out the songs, and fade in at the beginning and out at the end.  No EQing at all.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

 

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