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Poll

Which file's sound do you prefer?

"file 1"
9 (23.1%)
"file 2"
23 (59%)
No difference or equal quality
7 (17.9%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp  (Read 7082 times)

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Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2018, 10:03:04 PM »
Personally, I started out patching and wrote down everything I was patched out of and learned about different equipment that way, in addition to getting tapes from others, along with the anal report, so I was able to check out other sounds.  Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Yup, like Joel, this is how I started as well. I took digital patches with a DA-P1 from many long time tapers. I really enjoyed Scott Bernstein's tlm-170 in hyper x/y, but when I heard the sound of Sgordo's FOB schoeps tapes, I knew that I would eventually go to the dark side. I know padelimike tells a similar story about how he came to fall in love with the sound of the Sennheiser 441.

I've enjoyed a bunch of tapes I've heard of 12/30, and am converting Waltmon's u89 as I type...
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2018, 01:50:59 PM »


Yup, like Joel, this is how I started as well. I took digital patches with a DA-P1 from many long time tapers. I really enjoyed Scott Bernstein's tlm-170 in hyper x/y, but when I heard the sound of Sgordo's FOB schoeps tapes, I knew that I would eventually go to the dark side. I know padelimike tells a similar story about how he came to fall in love with the sound of the Sennheiser 441.

I've enjoyed a bunch of tapes I've heard of 12/30, and am converting Waltmon's u89 as I type...
[/quote]

Noah, one of the first things I learned about microphones, was how important proximity and placement was based on the mics being used and the venue itself.  We've touched on this discussion before, so you may remember my feelings/opinions on the subject.  Different mics perform differently based on where they are being used from; I don't think anyone would disagree with that.  Back in the day, I would have loved a pair of B&K's, but at that time, I wasn't always FOB, and 2 different pair of mics wasn't in my budget.  Yes, I said it (or at least implied it!), I do not care for B&K's (now DPA's) when they are not being used in the sweet spot FOB.  The same can be said about other microphones as well, and my needs were more for a microphone that was also acceptable further back when needed.  There are so many excellent microphones to choose from, as well as the rest of our equipment, yet so many people sooner pay attention to reputation, popularity and peer pressure than their own ears...IMHO.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2018, 02:36:00 PM »
Two questions:

At what point is the poll statistically meaningful?

When should I publicly identify the sources?
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline adrianf74

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2018, 03:16:44 PM »
Two questions:

At what point is the poll statistically meaningful?

When should I publicly identify the sources?

Are any polls statistically meaningful.  I think most people give an honest answer when they're asked to choose between two flavours so I'm certain this has some substance.

As for when to identify the sources -- that's your choice.  You could do it today but why not wait a full 7-days to allow a few more responses?

Looking forward to the results...

Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2018, 03:21:57 PM »
Two questions:

At what point is the poll statistically meaningful?

When should I publicly identify the sources?

Some of us...OK, me, are slower than others.  Please wait to reveal, I do not want my opinion colored with extraneous knowledge.  :smash:
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline nolamule

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2018, 06:00:09 PM »
My vote is for sample #2, not exactly sure why but I kept going back to it.

My playback was MacBook Pro > Apogee Groove > HD650  :headphones:

Offline kindms

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2018, 07:21:13 PM »
I prefer #2 slightly.
AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline goodcooker

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2018, 09:13:55 PM »
I'm looking at both sources side by side in CD Wave Editor and they look like they are phase inverted. The left side spikes in sample one are showing as right side spikes in sample two.

Look at 19:30:58.


I like sample two. More smooth. Sample one is more aggressive and harsh with more midrange - I like the scooped mids sound of sample two.


Playback - USB > Focusrite 2I2 > ART SLA1 amp > Acoustic Research M2 with Polk powered sub crossed over at ~100hZ. Maybe I'll give it another go with the Sennheiser HD280 cans.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:47:14 PM by goodcooker »
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2 || nBox Platinum
Marantz PMD706 || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

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Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2018, 01:37:45 PM »
Comparing the two originals from this post was like comparing an inverted mirror image.  After adjusting the level of the 2nd to match the 1st, yes the difference in volume was bothering me that much, I A/B'd them from Audacity using headphones (Sennheiser HD 380 pro).  Although sounding extremely similar, yet visually perplexing, I didn't hear enough of a difference for me to feel one was better than the other.  If I had to choose which one to download, burn and have to enjoy, I would go with mk22.02, because I seemed to find mk22.01 slightly more "in your face".  But seriously, I could flip a coin and would be happy with either one.  And for the record, I do not feel either of these recordings should be EQ'd in any way.




Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Online jbell

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 03:26:33 PM »
Both samples sound great had a hard time picking!!  Really makes me want a set of  mk22 caps.  The samples are very close and I would take either one.  I gave sample 1 the slight edge.

Foobar2000> Sony MDR V6
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 04:48:14 PM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2018, 06:27:38 PM »
Both samples sound great had a hard time picking!!  Really makes me want a set of  mk22 caps.  The samples are very close and I would take either one.  I gave sample 1 the slight edge.

Foobar2000> Sony MDR V6

I think that between the mk41 and the mk22, you can cover almost everything. Sell the mk4 pair and get mk22!!!!
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline adrianf74

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2018, 06:44:03 PM »
Both samples sound great had a hard time picking!!  Really makes me want a set of  mk22 caps.  The samples are very close and I would take either one.  I gave sample 1 the slight edge.

Foobar2000> Sony MDR V6

I think that between the mk41 and the mk22, you can cover almost everything. Sell the mk4 pair and get mk22!!!!

QFT.  These are the two sets of caps I owned when I ran Schoeps.  Peronally, I preferred the MK22's to the 41's _most of the time_ although the MK41's, as we all known, cut through the crap in bad sounding rooms or if you're really far back.

Offline nolamule

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2018, 09:17:38 PM »
Statistically speaking, the more samples the better, wih 30 samples being the minimum.

Two questions:

At what point is the poll statistically meaningful?

When should I publicly identify the sources?

Offline aaronji

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2018, 05:56:11 AM »
Two questions:

At what point is the poll statistically meaningful?

When should I publicly identify the sources?

There may be other options, but, off the top of my head, I think you could use either the binomial or the one-dimensional goodness-of-fit chi-square test.  The binomial test, an exact test, asks whether or not a single proportion differs from the expectation; the common example is to see if the number of heads you get doing a series of coin flips differs from 50%, but you can also dichotomize other questions.  The common example for that is to see if the number of ones you roll on a die differs from 1/6 (so number of ones in a given number of rolls).  Given the current poll numbers (5, 18, 7), you would test 18 votes for file 2 out of 30 total votes with an expected frequency of 1/3 (33%).  In the R implementation, you get P = 0.003 with an estimated true frequency of 0.60 and a 95% confidence interval between 0.41 and 0.77.  [In R: binom.test(18,30,1/3)]

In the chi-square test, you look at whether the observed distribution of proportions differs from the expected distribution of proportions.  For the poll, you would expect a proportion of 1/3 for each of the three categories.  Testing the proportions of 5/30, 18/30 and 7/30 against 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, you would get P = 0.007.  [In R: chisq.test(c(5,18,7)).  Note that if you don't specify the expected proportions, R assumes that it is 1/(number of categories) for each category.]

Long story short, both tests show that file 2 was selected significantly more frequently than you would expect by chance.  If anyone is really curious (which I kind of doubt!), I can post links or R outputs.  And while I am at it R is a really great, flexible, and free "language and environment for statistical computing and graphics".

Statistically speaking, the more samples the better, wih 30 samples being the minimum.

Definitely better to have larger sample sizes.  The number 30, though, is a very general (and somewhat dubious) rule-of-thumb for continuously distributed variables in parametric analyses (unlike this poll).  There are lots of caveats.  For the binomial test, there are no real sample size requirements (although it's power will be dependent on the number of successes and trials and the expected proportion).  For the chi-square test, a minimum of five expected observations per category (15 votes for this poll) is a well-accepted cut-off.

Offline rippleish20

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »
Both samples sound great had a hard time picking!!  Really makes me want a set of  mk22 caps.  The samples are very close and I would take either one.  I gave sample 1 the slight edge.

Foobar2000> Sony MDR V6

I think that between the mk41 and the mk22, you can cover almost everything. Sell the mk4 pair and get mk22!!!!

QFT.  These are the two sets of caps I owned when I ran Schoeps.  Peronally, I preferred the MK22's to the 41's _most of the time_ although the MK41's, as we all known, cut through the crap in bad sounding rooms or if you're really far back.

These have become my favorite two also.
Schoeps CMC6 (MK22's, MK41's) / AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) / Telefunken M60 (TK61, TK63)  - for sale / DPA (4061)
KCY 250/5 and 250/0 > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Roland R-07 /Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

 

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