Topic: Using a UA-5 for a SBD feed

[yousef]

I have a bm2p+ UA-5 that I'm hoping to use for a SBD feed next week but I'm not sure how best to use it.

I have the following leads:
-balanced XLR>TRS 1/4"
-unbalanced XLR>1/4"
-RCA>RCA + a couple XLR adaptors.

I'm erring towards balanced leads into the inputs on the front of the UA-5 but was wondering if there was any sonic benefit in using the XLR adaptors and RCA leads to go into the RCA ins on the back of the unit.

Any thoughts?

[admkrk]

why would you want to use adapters if you already have a perfectly good xlr option?

also, i don't know about the bussman mods, but iirc the oade mods didn't include the rca jacks?

[yousef]

why would you want to use adapters if you already have a perfectly good xlr option?

I was wondering if the RCAs might offer a little more headroom than the 'mic' inputs. But yes, if I can avoid using those dubious looking adaptors I certainly will.

also, i don't know about the bussman mods, but iirc the oade mods didn't include the rca jacks?

Interesting... I thought I'd been told that the RCAs were covered by the mod, but I'd never been sure.

[willndmb]

you can go rca in on the back too
and thats safer because if you hit the phantom power button you will not fry the board

[yug du nord]

why would you want to use adapters if you already have a perfectly good xlr option?

also, i don't know about the bussman mods, but iirc the oade mods didn't include the rca jacks?

Not sure on the Busman mod, but the Oade "+" mod improves the RCA inputs I believe.

But if you do use the XLR inputs for a line input....   just DO NOT turn the phantom power on....  if you do....  you probably will not be allowed to plug into the SBD again...  that is, after they get a new SBD.

I've run XLR from a SBD > UA-5 XLR, and have had good results....  just remember...  DO NOT turn on the phantom power.

[yousef]

But if you do use the XLR inputs for a line input....   just DO NOT turn the phantom power on....  if you do....  you probably will not be allowed to plug into the SBD again...  that is, after they get a new SBD.

  Worry not, I'd be ultra-paranoid about this - not least because of the thrashing I'd recieve from the powerhouse of a soundman that runs this particular board...

[admkrk]

why would you want to use adapters if you already have a perfectly good xlr option?

also, i don't know about the bussman mods, but iirc the oade mods didn't include the rca jacks?

Not sure on the Busman mod, but the Oade "+" mod improves the RCA inputs I believe.

But if you do use the XLR inputs for a line input....   just DO NOT turn the phantom power on....  if you do....  you probably will not be allowed to plug into the SBD again...  that is, after they get a new SBD.

I've run XLR from a SBD > UA-5 XLR, and have had good results....  just remember...  DO NOT turn on the phantom power.

interesting. it's been a while since i actually looked at what all was effected. maybe i'm thinking of the 1/4" jacks?

i can't remember how we set up last time i ran sbd>ua-5, it was 3 years ago after all, but i'm pretty sure we went xlr. and definitely stay away from the phantom power button.

[yug du nord]

why would you want to use adapters if you already have a perfectly good xlr option?

also, i don't know about the bussman mods, but iirc the oade mods didn't include the rca jacks?

Not sure on the Busman mod, but the Oade "+" mod improves the RCA inputs I believe.

interesting. it's been a while since i actually looked at what all was effected. maybe i'm thinking of the 1/4" jacks?

Once again, not sure about the Busman mod....  but the Oade mod's do disable the front 1/4" inputs....  I agree...  it's tough to dust off them brain cells after a few years....   

[yousef]

but the Oade mod's do disable the front 1/4" inputs.... 

Oh. Well that's no good...

I knew there was no phantom through the 1/4" inputs but just assumed that the mod left them functional. Glad I asked...

So it looks like it might be the dodgy RCA adaptors after all.

[DigiGal]

Have you considered running SBD to the RCA's on the back and running your own mics to the XLR's on the front then using UA5 Digi out to feed your recorder then serving as a bit bucket?  This allows for a nice mix of audience/venue ambience along with the stale SBD and could make the recording more like the actual venue experience. 

[yltfan]

Have you considered running SBD to the RCA's on the back and running your own mics to the XLR's on the front then using UA5 Digi out to feed your recorder then serving as a bit bucket?  This allows for a nice mix of audience/venue ambience along with the stale SBD and could make the recording more like the actual venue experience. 

Hmm...you got me wondering if I should try something like this with my R-44. I have a Wmod UA-5 that I got just before finding an irresistible deal on the R-44, and have not used it much since then. Guess I should experiment more...

This thread also makes me worry more about the phantom power and the soundboard!

[kirk97132]

Busman mod does not disable the front 1/4' inputs.  bm2p+ mod: "phantom power caps, input caps and op amps are replaced for detail and speed from a transparent like pre. UA-5 mods are made to send a good signal on the analog outputs just like you would get with the inputs."   You didn't state what you are recording to.  The analog outputs involve an A/D to D/A conversion.  It adds additional processing that a lot of people feel degrades the quality of the signal.  I can't hear it.  The UA-5 also has digital outputs in optical and coax in various bit rates and samplings.  That is how I use it digital out to the recorder.  And as stated it could also be used to do a martix od mics and sbd feed on the fly.  The drawback there is the headphone amp in the UA-5 is not very loud hence almost impossible to hear what you are mixing from the UA-5's headphone jack.  If the recorder has a decent headphone output you can use that.  It is a one time shot and if you don't get the mix right there is no going back to remix it.  The front inputs may not offer you enough control over the input. The RCA inputs offer you the ability to turn the signal down as low as you want or even off.  The XLR inputs will not.  The only issue I have had is trying to get the bm2p+ to accept a 24bit digital signal from a digital SBD.  It may be possible that the digi in is either disabled or not functioning unless it is hooked up to USB power.   Hope that helps...

And from what I know almost any SBD that is even half decent will not be affected by phantom power on.  Hell I am always forgetting to turn it off on my R-44 and have never had an issue, even on a cheapo Behringer.  Besides that you have to actually wait for the unit to do it's warm up cycle and then physically turn it on, it's not like you can leave it on. 

[yousef]

Have you considered running SBD to the RCA's on the back and running your own mics to the XLR's on the front then using UA5 Digi out to feed your recorder then serving as a bit bucket?  This allows for a nice mix of audience/venue ambience along with the stale SBD and could make the recording more like the actual venue experience. 

I had been considering this but I'm not keen on commiting myself to a mix that would basically be done blind (or, indeed, deaf). I've got a couple of spare recorders so will probably do a separate mics-only recording and will then mix them together in post. I've done similar things in past so I'm prepared for the syncing issues. If I'm there early enough and can get permission, I might try to do the support act as an all-UA5 mics+SBD mix.

Busman mod does not disable the front 1/4' inputs.  bm2p+ mod: "phantom power caps, input caps and op amps are replaced for detail and speed from a transparent like pre. UA-5 mods are made to send a good signal on the analog outputs just like you would get with the inputs."   You didn't state what you are recording to.  

Thanks for that - I'd been trawling the Team UA-5 threads for a definitive description of the Busman mods but the original thread with this info seems to have been deleted. I'm intending to go digi out to a Rockboxed Iriver h120 so the analogue>digital>analogue signal path shouldn't be an issue.

The front inputs may not offer you enough control over the input. The RCA inputs offer you the ability to turn the signal down as low as you want or even off.  The XLR inputs will not.

This is exactly what I'm worried about. I've taped from this board several times in the past and always had to use an attenuator when going into my old Microtrack (not the best benchmark, I know). You don't happen to know if there are any specs available to show what levels the various inputs can take, post-mod?

And thank you to everyone who has chimed in - much appreciated.

[willndmb]

Have you considered running SBD to the RCA's on the back and running your own mics to the XLR's on the front then using UA5 Digi out to feed your recorder then serving as a bit bucket?  This allows for a nice mix of audience/venue ambience along with the stale SBD and could make the recording more like the actual venue experience. 

Hmm...you got me wondering if I should try something like this with my R-44. I have a Wmod UA-5 that I got just before finding an irresistible deal on the R-44, and have not used it much since then. Guess I should experiment more...

This thread also makes me worry more about the phantom power and the soundboard!

if you have an r44 i wouldn't waste my time with the ua5 personally

but the advantage you have with a r44 vs the ua5 alone is that you have 2 different recordings
the ua5 sbd/mic mix is mixed right there and then
so if the mix isn't the way you like it - to bad

[kirk97132]

I can't speak for the wmod but hte bmp2+ mod has better sounding pres compared to my stock R-44.  But as you stated I would not use the UA-5 to mix on the fly into the R-44.  I use the UA-5 as an outboard preamp then go digi into the R-44 with channels 3 & 4 for the mic feed. 

I don't know if there are any specs around as far as levels go and you are right using the MT is not a good benchmark.  From what I recall about the MT the need for some kind of attenuator's in front of it if you use it by itself.  My guess would be if you hook up to a SBD that is running a +4db signal that it would be too much for the XLR inputs.  Rule of thumb is that if you use the RCA inputs you will not have to worry about it. 

With all that being said, if you are friendly with the sound person you could have them turn the level of the feed down in most cases.  I try to ask the soundperson for much if anything.  they are getting paid to do sound for the bands and anything they do for you is out of the goodness of their heart.   You could try it on the opening band and see if you are not worried about getting a good recording for the opening band.  But, not if you are going to try and matrix from the UA-5.