Author Topic: how many of you use a attenuator with the AD-20? (Read 8041 times)

setboy · « **on:** November 02, 2004, 02:50:54 PM »

how about it guys

do you use attenuators of any kind with the AD-20?

Raphael

pfife · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2004, 02:53:42 PM »

almost all the time. only when I am taping acoustic music is when I don't have to.

spyder9 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2004, 03:38:52 PM »

Me too! But only when I'm using shotguns. I don't use any for using minis. Not needed. See rig below.

keepongoin · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2004, 07:48:40 PM »

I never have... acoustic music or electric music... have not needed to.

pfife · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2004, 07:59:09 PM »

Quote from: keepongoin' on November 02, 2004, 07:48:40 PM

I never have... acoustic music or electric music... have not needed to.

Do you run a battery box in front of the ad-20? I sure do wish I didn't have to use one.

musicsherlock · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2004, 08:02:45 PM »

I'm thinking about heading towards attenuators. Just got my JB3 so I'll need to test run it without attenuators first.

pfife · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2004, 08:10:43 PM »

don't use them if you don't need em. When I look at my waveforms, you can see where they all look chopped off because of the attenuator- looks grim.

I am just completely confused as to why some people need them, and some don't.

To those of you that are not using them- if you go bb->ad-20 -> recorder, are your levels still hot as all hell?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2004, 02:32:22 AM »

when i had mine, yes.

hexyjones · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2004, 09:23:18 AM »

What are these Battery Boxes? It sounds like something that is producing a Line level rather than a Mic Level...? Thus the hot levels...

pfife · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2004, 10:34:04 AM »

Quote from: hexyjones on November 04, 2004, 09:23:18 AM

What are these Battery Boxes? It sounds like something that is producing a Line level rather than a Mic Level...? Thus the hot levels...

I think you are correct, but I also think that my mics would not work without them. I always think of it like phantom power, but not as much power. I know that when I plugged my mics into a mic input on my old MD, it sounded like total shit, and I needed a battery box, and use the line in.

So, you think if I just dropped the battery box and went mics -> ad-20 -> NJB3, the additional 17db of gain would be good enough? I'll have to test that.

musicsherlock · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2004, 10:48:01 AM »

When I use my stealth set-up (CSB>BB>AD-2->MD) I have no problems with the levels at all. Yet, I have more experience with that set up.

I only used my AKG's once with the AD-20 (and the levels were quite hot!) and have yet to use the JB3 so I'll have to run some tests first. Has anyone used the -10dB option on the AKG 480's? This is itself an attenuator, would you expect to see similar "deadend" waveforms as pfife describes?

hexyjones · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2004, 11:37:35 AM »

Quote from: musicsherlock on November 04, 2004, 10:48:01 AM

When I use my stealth set-up (CSB>BB>AD-2->MD) I have no problems with the levels at all. Yet, I have more experience with that set up.

I only used my AKG's once with the AD-20 (and the levels were quite hot!) and have yet to use the JB3 so I'll have to run some tests first. Has anyone used the -10dB option on the AKG 480's? This is itself an attenuator, would you expect to see similar "deadend" waveforms as pfife describes?

Right- but your battery box may be different...perhaps passing the signal at mic level...

hexyjones · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2004, 11:42:45 AM »

Quote from: pfife on November 04, 2004, 10:34:04 AM

Quote from: hexyjones on November 04, 2004, 09:23:18 AM
What are these Battery Boxes? It sounds like something that is producing a Line level rather than a Mic Level...? Thus the hot levels...

I think you are correct, but I also think that my mics would not work without them. I always think of it like phantom power, but not as much power. I know that when I plugged my mics into a mic input on my old MD, it sounded like total shit, and I needed a battery box, and use the line in.

So, you think if I just dropped the battery box and went mics -> ad-20 -> NJB3, the additional 17db of gain would be good enough? I'll have to test that.

I think a lot of these "battery box" things were made to overcome the shitty mic pres built into most portables. The battery box - not only powered your mics - but also passed the signal at line level...so you wouldn't have to use the "mic in." Line level is way too hot for a mic preamp...

And you are correct...you need the battery box to power the mics...they wont work at all without it...you just need a battery box that outputs at mic level...not line.

jk labs · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2004, 03:22:14 PM »

Quote from: pfife on November 03, 2004, 08:10:43 PM

don't use them if you don't need em. When I look at my waveforms, you can see where they all look chopped off because of the attenuator- looks grim.

I am just completely confused as to why some people need them, and some don't.

To those of you that are not using them- if you go bb->ad-20 -> recorder, are your levels still hot as all hell?

Levels:
It boils down to the sensitivity of the mics themselves and the implementation of the battery box.
When you design the batterybox you make a decision as to the level it is to output (not valid for all
batteryboxes. It depends on the mics).

dklein · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2004, 05:58:32 PM »

...and I think we're coming to the conclusion that the SP battery box seems to generate higher output than others. We have a happy CSB user with an SP battery box yet I can tell you that with the Core Sound battery box the CSBs are not coming anywhere near line level (generally 20-30 dB short).

Now I'm curious what the r/c values are in the SP box since there's no gain yet it's swinging such high output.

spyder9 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2004, 03:20:17 PM »

Get phantom powered minis w/ a PS-2. I have had no brickwalling issues. Very consistent and clean recordings. And I use hypers. The battery powered world is, what it is. Phantom is king.

zhianosatch, Thanks for the AD-20. It does work like a tank.

keepongoin · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2004, 03:35:50 PM »

Quote from: pfife on November 03, 2004, 07:59:09 PM

Quote from: keepongoin' on November 02, 2004, 07:48:40 PM
I never have... acoustic music or electric music... have not needed to.

Do you run a battery box in front of the ad-20? I sure do wish I didn't have to use one.

i use a ps2, which does not have any attenuators in it, to my knowledge.

spyder9 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2004, 03:37:18 PM »

PS-2 does not have attenuators.

pfife · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2004, 03:57:00 PM »

PS-2 is my plan, for more stealthier situations. Seems like they wouldn't make the two products that work together need an attenuator.

David and JKLabs- what you are saying makes sense. I am kinda dumb when it comes to these power issues...

+t

zhianosatch · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2004, 10:56:12 AM »

Quote from: spyder9 on November 05, 2004, 03:20:17 PM

Get phantom powered minis w/ a PS-2. I have had no brickwalling issues. Very consistent and clean recordings. And I use hypers. The battery powered world is, what it is. Phantom is king.

zhianosatch, Thanks for the AD-20. It does work like a tank.

i'm very happy to see that it's gone to a good home!

pfife · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2004, 08:27:06 AM »

Has anyone here ever ran DPA4061s -> MPS6010 -> AD-20? If so, did you need an attenuator?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2004, 10:14:48 PM »

I ran that rig for 1.5 years and yes, you certainly do need attenuators. Ya want my Shure A15ASes? I just realized that I have no use for them any more.
Warning: They were purchased as a pair from Daryan Lenz in early 2003. One of them was "dead" and Shure replaced it free.

pfife · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2004, 10:29:08 PM »

tempting man... tempting... I really wanna step up to some 4061s, and be extremely stealthy... so, those go after the MPS6010 and before the AD-20?

DPA4061 -> MPS6010 -> Shure A15A -> AD-20 -> NJB3?

I was looking at some pics of them - are they just 3 pin male on one end, and 3 pin female on the other end?

You record a lot of heavy/loud stuff- how was the low end on this rig? I am getting the sense that its overpowering at times...

thanks for the info

+t

zhianosatch · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2004, 02:22:43 AM »

Quote from: pfife on November 11, 2004, 10:29:08 PM

tempting man... tempting... I really wanna step up to some 4061s, and be extremely stealthy... so, those go after the MPS6010 and before the AD-20?

DPA4061 -> MPS6010 -> Shure A15A -> AD-20 -> NJB3?

yep. i did this but with a minidisc or a D8 for a year and a half.

Quote

I was looking at some pics of them - are they just 3 pin male on one end, and 3 pin female on the other end?

yep, "in-line," in the parlance of our time.

Quote

You record a lot of heavy/loud stuff-

i sure do

Quote

how was the low end on this rig? I am getting the sense that its overpowering at times...

with a straight-up power supply, no bass filter in teh chain, the low end from the 406xs will be intense, and in my experience, even with attenuators, sometimes the ad-20 will brickwall anyway. i had to get my mps modded to use it with the ad-20 happily 100% of the time.
also be prepared to handle a 12" long piece of gear with the ad-20 + attenuators + cables, unless you want the attenuators hangin' off the mps - a risky proposition because the mps does not have locking xlr connectors.
in the end, i was unsatisfied with the ad-20 setup because of:

1. the bulk: brick of ad-20 (not a big problem), tangles of cables and accessories like the attenuators, necessity for a mod to the mps (which, by the way, was totally worth it, but i digress), etc.
2. the sound

so i bought a modsbm-1 and am quite happy. definitely a step up. but the ad-20 is a titties match for the stealthjb3 and is a better match for the "at" sound... the ad-20 is a great way to improve entry-level mic tapes. it does wonders for AT831 backup tapes. but mics at the dpa level, even the little babies, will expose flaws in the unit's sound, particularly in the pesky preamp stage.
arm

setboy · « **Reply #24 on:** November 12, 2004, 07:26:30 PM »

do you gut think this setup will need a attenuator? AT933s-batbox-AD-20-JB3?

Raphael

pfife · « **Reply #25 on:** November 13, 2004, 11:53:39 AM »

Quote from: setboy on November 12, 2004, 07:26:30 PM

do you gut think this setup will need a attenuator? AT933s-batbox-AD-20-JB3?

Raphael

if that's an sp soundbox, my guess would be yes, but I don't know for sure.

sorry that's not much help. Here's some help though- if you need an attenuator, get a nice one.

setboy · « **Reply #26 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:06:12 PM »

Quote from: pfife on November 13, 2004, 11:53:39 AM

Quote from: setboy on November 12, 2004, 07:26:30 PM
do you gut think this setup will need a attenuator? AT933s-batbox-AD-20-JB3?

Raphael

if that's an sp soundbox, my guess would be yes, but I don't know for sure.

sorry that's not much help. Here's some help though- if you need an attenuator, get a nice one.

ok thanks

what kind of attenuator are good?

Raphael

C.Clark · « **Reply #27 on:** November 13, 2004, 10:35:34 PM »

when i used an ad-20 for most of 2003, i almost always had to use my attenuators, usually at -20db, to
get good levels without overloading the preamp without the att. i have relatively hot mics, output wise, you
would really know if you need them by reading how hot your mics are on their respictive spec sheet. not all
mics are the same

edit: to add to raphael's query, i used audio technica 8202 attenuators, they offered -10, -20, and -30 db's selected
via an inline switch on the middle of the body. they worked very well for me, i'd reccomend them.

pfife · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2004, 04:55:53 PM »

Well, I just tried AT853Rx -> PS-2 -> AD-20 -> NJB3 the other evening, and still brickwalling everywhere. I think there is something screwey with my AD-20.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2004, 09:01:27 AM »

pfife, i think you need attenuators.

pfife · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2004, 11:01:02 AM »

Yeah...it sucks...

OOK · « **Reply #31 on:** December 04, 2004, 02:29:41 AM »

MY experience with this unit is it runs a Hot signal...............It starts out at a +20 DB signal............Thats pretty hot for loud situations....I recomend the the attenuators. They don't flatten out the top ends thats usaully cause by running to hot of a signal in to your recorder..............The attenuator such as the shure model will knock the signal down so you get a better signal.....for example if your running a 20 db pad that will counter act the +20 signal and it would be as if your starting from 0db........which is what you want anyway......Its basically the same as putting a pad between the mic cap and the mic body. Lets say you have a pair of MBHO's they have a slp of 130 db. with a -10 attenuator the mic can now handle 140 db before overloading......., only what your talking about is putting the pad between the adc and the start of the mic cable.......basically the same thing...but what it comes down to is personal taste some people us them, some don't, in your situation I would!

later OOK

Poll

do you use a attenuator with the AD-20?

Author Topic: how many of you use a attenuator with the AD-20? (Read 8041 times)

hexyjones

hexyjones

hexyjones