Author Topic: Just tried out these bad boys (Read 14347 times)

whitenite · « **on:** August 17, 2003, 11:16:17 AM »

Just acquired the Sennheiser MKH-800s. Used these with the mini-me for crows and mayer the other night. i have the rev-A mme model which is set to low gain (no jumpers). i ran 12 db atten and -3 @ 50 HPF on the mics, had the gain turned all the way down on the mme and still went over. i was 8th row stack. i also just got my v3. i am beginning to wonder if these are just too damn sensitive to even use. do you think the 20 db input atten on the v3 would help (along with the 12 on the mics)?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2003, 11:54:54 AM »

Ouch! That must be some serious output...

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2003, 03:26:06 PM »

soundz to me like an spl issue, too much pressure levels in there, not that the mic is TOO sensitive, it just cant handle what is being pushed.....and for that show, they shouldnt have gone over......i can see maybe moe. making them hit the spl issue, but not those guyz.....

my 00.02

bean

nickgregory · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2003, 04:21:25 PM »

it has very little to do with the band, and more to do with how close you were to the stack in my opinion. In my experience stack taping, it is a crap shoot how loud it will be in some venues....I have taped stack from 10 ft back, all the way to 25 ft back and gotten distortion at times. Hit or miss sometimes

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2003, 05:27:47 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on August 17, 2003, 04:21:25 PM

it has very little to do with the band, and more to do with how close you were to the stack in my opinion. In my experience stack taping, it is a crap shoot how loud it will be in some venues....I have taped stack from 10 ft back, all the way to 25 ft back and gotten distortion at times. Hit or miss sometimes

\

so, theoretically, wouldnt that be spl issues???

nickgregory · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2003, 05:45:06 PM »

Quote from: diskobean on August 17, 2003, 05:27:47 PM

Quote from: nickgregory on August 17, 2003, 04:21:25 PM
it has very little to do with the band, and more to do with how close you were to the stack in my opinion. In my experience stack taping, it is a crap shoot how loud it will be in some venues....I have taped stack from 10 ft back, all the way to 25 ft back and gotten distortion at times. Hit or miss sometimes
\

so, theoretically, wouldnt that be spl issues???

absolutely.....I was just trying to make the point that even when I have seen the same band multiple times in different venues, some nights I could barly hear them through the PA and some nights it would blow my doors off....but yes, I agree with you...definitely spl issues.

whitenite · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:01:18 PM »

so what is an acceptable SPL typically for a mic? these can withstand up to 142 dB with preatten. i suppose the PA was pumping out a lot more...
nissan has a rep for being "loud" with any band.

whitenite · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:02:36 PM »

not to mention proximity...

John R · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:26:52 PM »

Quote from: whitenite on August 17, 2003, 06:01:18 PM

so what is an acceptable SPL typically for a mic? these can withstand up to 142 dB with preatten. i suppose the PA was pumping out a lot more...
nissan has a rep for being "loud" with any band.

more than 142? hopefully you had ear protection.

jr

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:48:14 PM »

don't take those bad boys to ministry

zhianosatch · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:55:52 PM »

Over 142 dB? Even at a Ministry stack, I'd be skeptical.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2003, 06:56:15 PM »

... of SPL that high, I mean.

nickgregory · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2003, 09:35:00 PM »

as bizarre as this sounds...Nissan is one of the loudest amps I have ever been too...It is a strange design in that the lawn is kind of above the seats....like way above....much more than normal. I think to compensate they run the levels at the top of the stacks (where this guy was probably taping from) alot louder to pump more volume out. As a result, I learned that whenever I stack tape there, no need to shoot that stand to 17 feet...

Not a sound engineer, but just a guess on my part.

whitenite · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2003, 09:43:46 PM »

my stand was at about 14'. the stacks are mounted pretty high, I suppose for projection based on the design you mentioned.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2003, 02:32:44 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on August 17, 2003, 05:45:06 PM

Quote from: diskobean on August 17, 2003, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on August 17, 2003, 04:21:25 PM
it has very little to do with the band, and more to do with how close you were to the stack in my opinion. In my experience stack taping, it is a crap shoot how loud it will be in some venues....I have taped stack from 10 ft back, all the way to 25 ft back and gotten distortion at times. Hit or miss sometimes
\

so, theoretically, wouldnt that be spl issues???

absolutely.....I was just trying to make the point that even when I have seen the same band multiple times in different venues, some nights I could barly hear them through the PA and some nights it would blow my doors off....but yes, I agree with you...definitely spl issues.

i see what your saying also, def. each venue is different in its own way, and most sound crappy....

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2003, 02:34:57 AM »

Quote from: whitenite on August 17, 2003, 06:01:18 PM

so what is an acceptable SPL typically for a mic? these can withstand up to 142 dB with preatten. i suppose the PA was pumping out a lot more...
nissan has a rep for being "loud" with any band.

142???WOW, that is truely bleeding ears, it might of been that high, but that is LOUD......i dunno then, im clueless......

wbrisette · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2003, 05:01:57 AM »

There's no way it was 142 dB. There are sound limit ordances in most towns and they won't allow the venues to go over whatever that limit is (and more aren't more than 125 dB). That said, I think you're running into the same problem I've run into with the QTC-1 mics. They are just WAY too sensitive and require some serious attenuation prior to going into the pre-amp. For the QTC-1 mics I run the Wendt X4 with the -20 dB pads on and in addition to that I run the AT 8202 inline attenuators at -20 dB. If I don't do this, nothing but distortion at rock shows. I've been able to get away with just the -20 dB setting on the X4 for bluegrass shows, but that's acoustic only. If you can round up an external attenuation, try that and see what happens. My guess is that you will find it works fine at that point.

Wayne

zhianosatch · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2003, 10:24:25 AM »

+T, Wayne.

BC · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2003, 12:33:25 AM »

Sounds like you might need attenuators...

Just wondering, what is the sensitivity listed as?? I think my DPA4022's are ~ 8 mV/Pa.

Good luck
Ben

cpclark · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2003, 01:09:39 AM »

my mics run at 146, which is the highest ive ever seen without attenuation, and i have to run attenuation as these mics run as hot as they come

whitenite · « **Reply #20 on:** August 19, 2003, 05:46:34 PM »

Quote from: wbrisette on August 18, 2003, 05:01:57 AM

There's no way it was 142 dB. There are sound limit ordances in most towns and they won't allow the venues to go over whatever that limit is (and more aren't more than 125 dB). That said, I think you're running into the same problem I've run into with the QTC-1 mics. They are just WAY too sensitive and require some serious attenuation prior to going into the pre-amp. For the QTC-1 mics I run the Wendt X4 with the -20 dB pads on and in addition to that I run the AT 8202 inline attenuators at -20 dB. If I don't do this, nothing but distortion at rock shows. I've been able to get away with just the -20 dB setting on the X4 for bluegrass shows, but that's acoustic only. If you can round up an external attenuation, try that and see what happens. My guess is that you will find it works fine at that point.

Wayne

So back to my original question...I wonder if the -12 dB on the mics coupled with the -20 dB preattenuation on the V3 would do the trick without the need for an additional attenuator?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2003, 06:01:16 PM »

who knows, give it a shot. have some other attenuator ready just in case!

iphone · « **Reply #22 on:** August 20, 2003, 12:43:51 AM »

the mic has sensitivity level of 40 mV.that's give and take 4 times more than your average mic.select the -20 pad on the v3.or get shure a15s.

whitenite · « **Reply #23 on:** August 20, 2003, 09:25:43 AM »

you mean the shure s15a? i already have a mic stand. what good would that do me?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #24 on:** August 20, 2003, 10:59:55 AM »

Shure A15AS switchable attenuators

whitenite · « **Reply #25 on:** August 20, 2003, 02:04:09 PM »

gotcha

plucks · « **Reply #26 on:** August 20, 2003, 06:14:43 PM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 17, 2003, 06:55:52 PM

Over 142 dB? Even at a Ministry stack, I'd be skeptical.

142 would definitely cause "bleeding ears"

100 dB(SPL) would be the loud point at Moe. or Phish at the FOH. every 10dB gain is double the sound you hear...So,

110=double
120=triple
130=quadruple
140=five times as loud as 100dB to your ears.
(This is for reference puposes)

I am not sure about the settings of you mics, but it is very unlikely that the sound got above 142 SPL. As it has been said, sounds like sensitivity.

Good luck
Phil

zhianosatch · « **Reply #27 on:** August 20, 2003, 06:39:13 PM »

Three cheers for logarithms!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #28 on:** August 20, 2003, 08:35:53 PM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 20, 2003, 06:39:13 PM

Three cheers for logarithms!

log base mom to my dick

VA_TAPER · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2003, 09:31:21 PM »

Quote from: plucks on August 20, 2003, 06:14:43 PM

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 17, 2003, 06:55:52 PM
Over 142 dB? Even at a Ministry stack, I'd be skeptical.
every 10dB gain is double the sound you hear...So,

Good luck
Phil

your points are 100% on; but it's every 6db = doubling not 10db.

peace, chris

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #30 on:** August 21, 2003, 04:21:29 AM »

Quote from: VA_TAPER on August 20, 2003, 09:31:21 PM

Quote from: plucks on August 20, 2003, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: zhianosatch on August 17, 2003, 06:55:52 PM
Over 142 dB? Even at a Ministry stack, I'd be skeptical.
every 10dB gain is double the sound you hear...So,

Good luck
Phil

your points are 100% on; but it's every 6db = doubling not 10db.

peace, chris

6?! uh oh, i feel some controversy here

zhianosatch · « **Reply #31 on:** August 21, 2003, 11:15:12 AM »

yes, it is 6.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #32 on:** August 22, 2003, 08:05:09 AM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 21, 2003, 11:15:12 AM

yes, it is 6.

well shit

log base 6 baby!

if it makes my ears bleed, I like it!

plucks · « **Reply #33 on:** August 22, 2003, 04:10:07 PM »

Well, I did a little more research and here's how I understand it:
every +/-10 db is double or half of the percieved volume.

The 6dB difference is this:
Every halving or doubling in distance from stacks if they were set up in a straight/vertical setup will result in +/- 6dB depending on your direction of movement. The reason most concert PA stacks are set up at an angle is that it will result in a more spread out and even dB level. This means that you won't really hear a major dB difference.

Hope this cleared some things up!

Phil

zhianosatch · « **Reply #34 on:** August 22, 2003, 04:12:58 PM »

Quote from: Stealth Master Schwilly on August 22, 2003, 08:05:09 AM

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 21, 2003, 11:15:12 AM
yes, it is 6.

well shit

log base 6 baby!

if it makes my ears bleed, I like it!

base 10, base 10!

zhianosatch · « **Reply #35 on:** August 22, 2003, 04:14:37 PM »

Quote from: plucks on August 22, 2003, 04:10:07 PM

Well, I did a little more research and here's the scoop:
every 10 db increase or decrease is double or half of the percieved volume.

The 6dB difference is this:
Every halving or doubling in distance from stacks in a straight-vertical setup will result in +/- 6dB depending on your direction of movement. The reason most concert PA stacks are set up at an angle is that it will result in a more spread out and even dB level.

Hope this cleared some things up!

Phil

time to bust out my physics book and notes. i'll have the answer saturday night.

biaatches...

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #36 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:47:02 AM »

but it armen, bust it

SPL is way beyond me

zhianosatch · « **Reply #37 on:** August 26, 2003, 11:47:05 AM »

oh shoot, i forgot about this
tonight it is!

VA_TAPER · « **Reply #38 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:15:40 PM »

Quote from: plucks on August 22, 2003, 04:10:07 PM

Well, I did a little more research and here's how I understand it:
every +/-10 db is double or half of the percieved volume.

The 6dB difference is this:
Every halving or doubling in distance from stacks if they were set up in a straight/vertical setup will result in +/- 6dB depending on your direction of movement. The reason most concert PA stacks are set up at an angle is that it will result in a more spread out and even dB level. This means that you won't really hear a major dB difference.

Hope this cleared some things up!

Phil

looks like we're both right actually:
http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/decibels/decibels1.ppt

it seems both 6db and 10db are considered doubling of volume, there is even contention among the experts!

peace, chris

plucks · « **Reply #39 on:** August 28, 2003, 02:45:28 PM »

Yes, they are both doubling, but in different categories.
10 db is the percieved doubling
6 db is the doubling of gain.

It sure can get confusing.
Right on!

Thanks for the ppt.

Phil

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #40 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:17:17 PM »

Quote from: plucks on August 28, 2003, 02:45:28 PM

Yes, they are both doubling, but in different categories.
10 db is the percieved doubling
6 db is the doubling of gain.

It sure can get confusing.
Right on!

Thanks for the ppt.

Phil

what the fuck?!?! how can two different logarithms be run on the same scale? this is way beyond me...

zhianosatch · « **Reply #41 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:18:50 PM »

no way, it's sweet... didn't they teach you anything in PHYS 131?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #42 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:29:08 PM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 28, 2003, 05:18:50 PM

no way, it's sweet... didn't they teach you anything in PHYS 131?

i had peters! didn't you get the low down on that old crusty?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #43 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:51:22 PM »

i knew him 'fore you did... yellow by day's end...

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #44 on:** August 28, 2003, 06:06:43 PM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 28, 2003, 05:51:22 PM

i knew him 'fore you did... yellow by day's end...

we need to post a pic of that phucker with chalk all up and down his side

Author Topic: Just tried out these bad boys (Read 14347 times)

cpclark