Topic: Stealth MICs that are good enough for Reg. Use?

[King Crimson]

Yes

[goose]

MATTZS:  you said "the mics say they have a preamp"

FWIW - the "preamp" on those mics are really just bodies - they do not provide gain - they provide power to the interchangeable capsules.  Same as AKG 480s are preamps (bodies) and capsules.  If going mics -> ps2 -> jb3, you would be using the preamp and AD convertor of the jb3.  But yes, I believe that would work, I am just not sure how well or if it'll work in all situations.

[MATTZS]

I would be using them in loud settings IE concerts, I don't think I need gain for that, do I?

[zhianosatch]

Yes, you do.

[MATTZS]

I do for the best sound, or I do for them to work at all? Why if I run at853's all I need is a battery box?

[drumminj]

If you run at853s the battery box provides 9V to the mics to power them.  It does not amplify the signal at all(though it does allow them to handle higher SPL than without battery box). In most situations you're still going to want a preamp, though.  The JB3 supposedly has one (though I've never seen any documentation saying the JB3 actually *uses* the analog gain stage as opposed to simply applying digital gain), and the 853's run pretty hot, so you can get away with not having a preamp in some cases.  There are actually a few people running this way, but you'll be running low levels.  Lower levels = fewer bits used to encode "real" audio in the signal = lesser quality.

When I first started I ran SP's version of at853s ->batt box -> analog preamp -> JB3.  I think the internal A/D is decent.

J

[plucks]

I would have to say Audix mics are probably one of the best choices at mics that are affordable to most people and sound great in a variety of applications, stealth or not.  
For stealthing, the Micros, which have been mentioned, are great.  They are full body mics, but about the size of your pinky finger.  You can get them in a variety of polar patterns as well.  The low end frequency is not too bad either.  The M1290s are more well rounded in that aspect than the M1245s.
The micros also work great for miking drums.  
You can mount them onto custom shockmounts, or rig them with mic clips into a Schoeps A20 shockmount too.  The M1245, the smaller of the 2 micros can definitly be mounted onto your glasses or in a cap with ease.  

Any sample recordings of the M1290s I will be glad to provide.  

Phil

[MATTZS]

so it looks like
m1245/m1290>ps2>ad20>jb3
is the way to go.
Hows the crotch factor with this setup? Seems like alot.
Matt

[zhianosatch]

Not a problem. The JB3 can be crotched but a lot of people get 'em in by passing them off as their mere mp3 players, didn't want to leave it in the car in this neighborhood, etc...

[George]

There are actually a few people running this way, but you'll be running low levels.  Lower levels = fewer bits used to encode "real" audio in the signal = lesser quality.

Ok, shoot me now  

Why are they fewer bits if i record at lower levels?  I tend to record everything at lower levels and maybe raise (amplify) the volume a few db's with adobe audition.  Just wondering.  

The problem i had was i have a built in preamp with my soundpro battery box and when i used the gain i just wound up lowering the volume down so there wouldn't be any distortion.  

[Simp-Dawg]

There are actually a few people running this way, but you'll be running low levels.  Lower levels = fewer bits used to encode "real" audio in the signal = lesser quality.

Ok, shoot me now  

Why are they fewer bits if i record at lower levels?  I tend to record everything at lower levels and maybe raise (amplify) the volume a few db's with adobe audition.  Just wondering.  

The problem i had was i have a built in preamp with my soundpro battery box and when i used the gain i just wound up lowering the volume down so there wouldn't be any distortion.  

it's just that you have so much headroom recording at 16 bits, i think technically it is 96db.  each bit represents 6 db.  the more information (db) you give to the a/d chip the more bits are actually used.  this is also why recording at 24bits allows a little more headroom when recording.
the a/d on your jb3 is not very good which is why you don't want to run your mics too hot with your setup.  that's ok...but try to go as high as you can without hearing any negative effects on the recording.  it's always better to capture that from the source instead of boosting it later.
also, i'd recommend, if you're not already, running the mics into the line in (instead of mic in) to eliminate the crappy pre-amp on the jb3 (from what i've read).

HTH

[George]

There are actually a few people running this way, but you'll be running low levels.  Lower levels = fewer bits used to encode "real" audio in the signal = lesser quality.

Ok, shoot me now  

Why are they fewer bits if i record at lower levels?  I tend to record everything at lower levels and maybe raise (amplify) the volume a few db's with adobe audition.  Just wondering.  

The problem i had was i have a built in preamp with my soundpro battery box and when i used the gain i just wound up lowering the volume down so there wouldn't be any distortion.  

it's just that you have so much headroom recording at 16 bits, i think technically it is 96db.  each bit represents 6 db.  the more information (db) you give to the a/d chip the more bits are actually used.  this is also why recording at 24bits allows a little more headroom when recording.
the a/d on your jb3 is not very good which is why you don't want to run your mics too hot with your setup.  that's ok...but try to go as high as you can without hearing any negative effects on the recording.  it's always better to capture that from the source instead of boosting it later.
also, i'd recommend, if you're not already, running the mics into the line in (instead of mic in) to eliminate the crappy pre-amp on the jb3 (from what i've read).

HTH

hey, thanks for the post!  I'm actually using a M1 now and i always use the line in  

Thanks for all the info though, i was wondering about something: What's the cut off typically for the level meter on a M1 when recording?  I let the meters jump up to 12db and it came out fine....albeit a bit quiet.

[zhianosatch]

Push em to zero. All the way.

[drumminj]

the a/d on your jb3 is not very good which is why you don't want to run your mics too hot with your setup.  that's ok...but try to go as high as you can without hearing any negative effects on the recording.

I'm confused here. I don't see how the quality of the A/D would have any relation to the levels you want to run....I can understand if the preamp isn't very good, and you want to be careful of brickwalling (thus don't run too hot).  But if the A/D is of poor quality, isn't that going to be an issue at ALL levels - and simply in the conversion?  The A/D's performance doesn't change as the level increases?

Just want to make sure there's not some nugget of knowledge I'm missing.

Honestly, I don't think the internal A/D is all that bad.  I'll have to run the JB3 side-by-side with my UA-5 and make samples available some time....

[MattD]

Though this doesn't answer the question, an A/D's performance can change dependent on levels. The A/D I use is a 24-bit A/D that is optimized at whatever analog level = -6 dB digital (I think it's +18 dBu on that unit, but don't quote me on that).