Topic: Old taper getting back in the game... hopefully

[Jeff F]

Hello all,
Not a new taper but been out of the game long enough that I'm sure technology has changed a bit.. at least slightly. heh.

My current rig is as follows:
Schoeps mk21 (NOS @ 110*) > KCY 250/5i > Sonosax SX-M2-LS/2 > Graham-Patten ADC-20 > Hosa ODL-312 > JB3 = open taping
Schoeps mk41 (NOS @ 110*) > KCY 250/2i > Sonosax SX-M2-LS/2 > JB3 = stealth taping

I'm fine with the caps but am looking for a new recorder and probably preamp as well. And I would probably need new mic cables since these cables were designed for the Lemosax connector. It would be nice to have a pre/recorder combo so long it's small enough to stealth. And would want something that can use a battery pack for when attending festivals for all-day/multi-day recording.

Can someone recommend something, reasonably priced, to get this taper back in the game and trenches?

Thanks all,
Jeff

[darby]

buy a Sony M-10 and sell me your crappy Sonosax 

Edit:
if you have had that sax for awhile, I'm fairly sure you really can't find any combo you will like
any hand held recorder today running off that sax is a fine rig for less than open taping
I'm sure you will get many different ideas than this

[acidjack]

^ agree. Keep that sax or sell it to me. Buy and M10. Dump the ADC etc.

If you want things simpler but still HQ, you could get a used Sound Devices 702 or 722 for not much more than you can get for that used Sax.

Get a KCY PFA from Naiant (music@naiant.com) for stealth.

[Jeff F]

Thanks for the quick information and consensus on the Sony M-10. Looks to be reasonably priced. One thing I am wondering if this device has a digital converter or does it record well enough to not need one? I see that it doesn't have an optical in which is something I liked about the JB3. Obviously the JB3 is old and unsupported technology.

I do like my Lemosax and would have to do some troubleshooting as I have issues with my left channel. Either there is something faulty with the Lemo or one of the cable ends. I need to check things out on my end and then reach out to Nick Carbonetta or someone else who may be interested and able in fixing.

As for a new pre, the Sound Devices would be too big to sneak in for me. I know it's done but I'm used to the Lemo.

[tim in jersey]

Another vote for holding on to the Sax.

[Jeff F]

I guess I need to figure things out and find out what's broke and fix it.

[Brian Skalinder]

One thing I am wondering if this device has a digital converter or does it record well enough to not need one?

Welcome back, Jeff!  The newish portable recorders have vastly superior analog inputs and ADCs than the old recorders of past, like the JB3.  I would never have run analog-in to the JB3, but loads of people do with the M10 with mighty fine results.  There's not much need for dedicated a ADC in the signal chain, anymore...especially for stealth.

For keeping roughly the same setup, your alternatives to the Sax + cables:

• NBox + cables.  Still available new, or used in a couple different variations (NBox, NBox+, NBox Platinum I think from oldest to most recent.)
• Tinybox + cables.  Fat chance finding this one; made by Jon Stoppable / Naiant here on TS, they're out of production, so you'd have to luck into used one.

I don't have any direct experience with the Tinybox, unfortunately.  I prefer the Sax to the original NBox, though I think both sound mighty fine in their own way.  I don't know what's changed with the NBox+ and Platinum, but I'm sure they're also excellent options if you wanted to change things up.

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

[hi and lo]

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

[Jhurlbs81]

I love mkx>lemosax>m-10, great set up! 

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

Apparently, people are using 9.6v rechargeables with success.

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/MAHA-MH-C490F-9-Volt-9V-Battery-Charger-with-Three-Maha-Imedion-96V-230-mAh-Batteries-with-World-Adapter-and-12V-Cord_p_851.html

See more here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175100.0

[justink]

definitely keep the sax and get a M10.

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

[bombdiggity]

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are... 

[justink]

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

nah, nothing wrong with the mk's.  i'm just poking fun.

[aaronji]

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...

[acidjack]

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...

I suppose we shouldn't derail this thread, but yes, I've always felt (having owned both) that DPAs were really, really flat and Schoeps are more "musical" (even though a frequency response chart would say both these mics are extremely flat). In my experience, when a room and the sound in it are flawless, you're possibly a slight amount better off with DPAs. For what most of us are doing (recording PA systems and otherwise not-perfect mixes of things) Schoeps tend to sound a little better, to me. But I have recordings with both that I think are basically perfect. If I were just throwing money around, I'd probably get some DPAs again.... Hmm....

[MakersMarc]

Unless you want to swap out the Sax, I'd stick with Mics > Sax > M10.

+t to this recommendation, this is killer setup that is dead simple to use and definitely bring you back to the hobby! You can practically fit everything in a fanny pack and will never have to deal with the JB3 or GP ever again. Just get a high-quality mini-to-mini cable and you're set. Quite literally the only annoyance is how to power the Sax... 2 x 9v batteries are usually good for any 4-5 hour or you could pick up a tekkeon that will output 18vs. Pretty trivial imo.

Ditto that, and way cheaper than changing out preamp and cables. Cost of an m10 gets you back in the game.

[MakersMarc]

sell the muddy schweps and get some dpa fire!   

LOL.  Funny how we hear those brands exactly and completely opposite but that's how ears are...

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...

I suppose we shouldn't derail this thread, but yes, I've always felt (having owned both) that DPAs were really, really flat and Schoeps are more "musical" (even though a frequency response chart would say both these mics are extremely flat). In my experience, when a room and the sound in it are flawless, you're possibly a slight amount better off with DPAs. For what most of us are doing (recording PA systems and otherwise not-perfect mixes of things) Schoeps tend to sound a little better, to me. But I have recordings with both that I think are basically perfect. If I were just throwing money around, I'd probably get some DPAs again.... Hmm....

I got yer transparent Dutch mikes.......

[gewwang]

^ agree. Keep that sax or sell it to me. Buy and M10. Dump the ADC etc.

If you want things simpler but still HQ, you could get a used Sound Devices 702 or 722 for not much more than you can get for that used Sax.

Get a KCY PFA from Naiant (music@naiant.com) for stealth.

I have a sonosax, m10, and 722 (and many other recorders I never bothered selling). But IMO, the easiest to deal with is running the 722 especially when running lo-pro. 1 less box to deal with, 1 less pair of cables to worry about. And whether it's fair or not, I feel alot more secure taping to the 722 than the m10. I also have alot more confidence checking levels in a dark arena or theater with the colorful 722 lights than the 2-color m10 display.

[bombdiggity]

You think DPAs are muddy?  First time I have heard anyone say that; usually, it is the opposite ("clinical" seems to be a favorite adjective)...

I do, though that may be from hearing the results of a lot of people using omni versions of them in rooms or places in rooms they're really ill suited for.  I don't like the signature 406x sound at all... though that may be that they're just not the right choice for how most people use them, though I know a few people who know what they're doing like them. 

[aaronji]

^ That must be what it is, because they really aren't muddy (at all, in my opinion) compared to the comparable Schoeps mic.

To be very honest, I think the differences are pretty small. I very much like the DPA "house sound", but I think I would be very happy with Schoeps too...

[bombdiggity]

To continue the threadjack... 

^ That must be what it is, because they really aren't muddy (at all, in my opinion) compared to the comparable Schoeps mic.

To be very honest, I think the differences are pretty small. I very much like the DPA "house sound", but I think I would be very happy with Schoeps too...

There's a major helping of personal preference in it... 

As I said I don't like the 406x (seemingly the default for DPA audience tapers) in a standard audience setting.  I'd much prefer an MK4.  They are however very different mics and different patterns.  There's likely a reason Schoeps audience tapers essentially don't (to my knowledge) use MK2's though    (or extremely rarely might).  I might prefer a 406x to an MK2 in the same spot out in the hall as I suspect that difference may not be small.  I don't want to hear the house as much as the music (though that admittedly overstates the case).  But yeah to clarify I think the 406x (DPA's most widely used flavor in taping circles) sound muddier than I'd want where they're most widely used. 

[gewwang]

406x (seemingly the default for DPA audience tapers) in a standard audience setting.

406x (DPA's most widely used flavor in taping circles)

I'm not sure I'd agree with either of these statements. 406x is mostly just used by stealth tapers that (I guess) prefer using omnis to cards.

Most tapers I know that use DPAs for open taping use the 402x cards and/or subcards and rarely use omnis.

[aaronji]

^^ As gewwang said, 4060s aren't really the appropriate standard of comparison. I would compare 4006 to MK2, 4011 to MK4, etc.

For what it's worth, omnis can make great audience recordings in the right circumstances.  Perhaps also worth mentioning that the proximity effect in directional mics condition their users to expect less bass, so that even when they hear an omni recording from ideal circumstances, it sounds more bassy or muddy to them.  Similarly, people that are used to omnis often think card recordings sound thin...

[Jeff F]

Thanks for the threadjack guys,

I'm hoping sometime this weekend or so I'll figure out where the problem lies in my set-up. For me, I enjoy most of the set-ups and don't really say one is better over the other. Since I run Schoeps, I tend to gravitate to those recordings more but I don't shove off DPA or others. I can see your point of the lights for the 722. I ran stealth with the JB3 and those levels really sucked since they weren't very accurate and hard to read. I figure that m10 will be steps ahead of what I used to have. I'm hoping I can figure out and fix the issues as my itch to record is coming back.

[justink]

M10 with a 32gb card and you're set!

That's all you need. Maybe some good rechargeable AA's.