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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: swordfish on July 27, 2016, 12:33:29 PM
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Taped a band from Chile last night and the guy at the board mentioned it will be loud tonight....since I wasn't able to insert a picture I moved it and 2 soundfiles to the cloud...
I never had an issue with the equipment/setup before...but the bass/drum is distorted even in segments where it should not be distorted at all. During the show it sounded not that bad to my ears.... The Tinybox was fully loaded.
Thanks in advance
2 questions
1. What happened
2. Is there a chance to repair
the files and a photo can be downloaded here
Dateien (100 MB total)
Chico Trujillo 2016-07-26 partial.WAV
Chico Trujillo 2016-07-26 partial2.WAV
Chico Trujillo 2016-07-26.png
Available 'till
3. August 2016
Link to download
https://we.tl/3Z5nKyCS8L
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Id did some analyze in Reaper and Peak level is -2.44 db in ch.1 and -5.40 in ch.2. Loudness Intergrated -24.7 LUFS in a range of 13.4LU. Maximun short-term -20.4 LUFS, maximum momentary -18.4 LUFS.
I am at work now, with bad speakers, but I can still hear what you write : distorted when not load at all.
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Id did some analyze in Reaper and Peak level is -2.44 db in ch.1 and -5.40 in ch.2. Loudness Intergrated -24.7 LUFS in a range of 13.4LU. Maximun short-term -20.4 LUFS, maximum momentary -18.4 LUFS.
I am at work now, with bad speakers, but I can still hear what you write : distorted when not load at all.
thanks for the effort...I think this is one for the trash can, nevertheless I don't know what caused the issue....a friend of mine made a great Neil Young recording with the Tinybox last week and I never had an issue with mk 41, the only thing I can think of is the SPL...
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Whats the gear used,mk41 ,tinybox,m10?
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Whats the gear used,mk41 ,tinybox,m10?
MK41 - Nbobs actives - Tinybox +18dB - Sony M10 Line in...set up I used for loud shows never had an issue...
the only thing I can think of that I set the Tinybox by mistake to low and the pad kinda brickwalled it...but what do I know...
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What level setting were you using on the Tinybox? I've found that I have to use the "low" setting for loud shows. If I set the Tinybox to "medium" then the M10 dial is typically around 3, which you'd think would be good but results in brickwalling. If I set the Tinybox to "low" the M10 dial will be at around 8 or 9, but I get a good recording with no brickwalling. That has been my experience, and I've had to throw away some killer shows because I have made the "medium" mistake more than once.
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For even moderately loud shows, you have to run the TB at "low" gain. I too have been burned by the "med" gain setting.
Edit: I should add that my TB v2.2 has "standard gain" (4/18/32) and provides 53V polarization for the caps. I started out using the medium/+18 gain since that sounds reasonable for 99% shows given the rest of the rig. All was good for awhile then I had a few brickwalled.
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What level setting were you using on the Tinybox? I've found that I have to use the "low" setting for loud shows. If I set the Tinybox to "medium" then the M10 dial is typically around 3, which you'd think would be good but results in brickwalling. If I set the Tinybox to "low" the M10 dial will be at around 8 or 9, but I get a good recording with no brickwalling. That has been my experience, and I've had to throw away some killer shows because I have made the "medium" mistake more than once.
The TB was set to mid gain and in the end I dialed in around 5...normally I don't attend very loud rock shows and I guess I have learned the lesson the hard way...
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For even moderately loud shows, you have to run the TB at "low" gain. I too have been burned by the "med" gain setting.
Edit: I should add that my TB v2.2 has "standard gain" (4/18/32) and provides 53V polarization for the caps. I started out using the medium/+18 gain since that sounds reasonable for 99% shows given the rest of the rig. All was good for awhile then I had a few brickwalled.
My TB has the same gain settings as yours....may I have to mention that I have the TB with the 4/18/32 dB gain switch and the on switch with high and low option...the low option provides a 10dB pad if I recall correct.
Usually I use the mid 18dB+ and the ON switch set to high and had only once brickwalling...
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So... Here's something completely different in the same vein. This is a sample (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7avcnidql4wv5kk/patd2016-07-15t04.mp3?dl=0) from my (shitshow induced) R09 internals the other night at Panic!/Weezer in Dallas. I had to pull the bass down about 6~10dB (mostly for the kick drum) and it still has this wub-wub-wub sound in places. I will be recording from the same venue & similar location soon (hopefully) with better gear. Did the bass just totally brickwall the R09?
I am planning on using AT829s(SP-CMC-1)>BBox>R09 for upcoming shows... thoughts?
Thanks!!
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Did the bass just totally brickwall the R09?
Yes. The R09 internals just can't handle that kind of SPL without distorting. You'll be much better off with the SP-CMC-1 mics and a battery box. I can't recall if the SP-CMC-1 mics need the low sensitivity mod (my SP-CMC-8 mics did). Maybe someone else can answer that.
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My TB has the same gain settings as yours....may I have to mention that I have the TB with the 4/18/32 dB gain switch and the on switch with high and low option...the low option provides a 10dB pad if I recall correct.
Usually I use the mid 18dB+ and the ON switch set to high and had only once brickwalling...
I use my gear infrequently enough that I keep forgetting the difference between the high/low settings on the power switch. Maybe I never really knew.
The http://naiant.com/tinybox-specification (http://naiant.com/tinybox-specification) web page states that the 3-way power switch functions as a "high/low microphone power switch (to select between microphone power options or phantom power voltage). When the power switch is configured as a high/low selector, the voltage supplied as the phantom or capsule polarization supply will switch between either +48V (phantom) and +54V (capsule polarization for active systems) on high and +8v or +16V on low, according to the required input configuration."
I'm not sure if I should be using the high or low position with my gear. I guess "high" since I am using the Naiant "active" couplings with my AKG caps?
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RE the Tinybox you do need the proper amplification level set at the selection switch or the signal can get baked at the pre-amp stage. Most (all?) Tinyboxes have that light indicator (the charging light). When you're running a show that also serves as a clip indicator (at least it does on mine). If you're recording that light should be solid green. If you see it blinking red when recording it is clipping internally. I always run medium (and maybe every once in a while need high) but at a festi one of the loud stages was way too loud. I saw the blinking light right away as they started and switched down to low. Baked a few seconds before I figured it out but the rest was fine.
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RE the Tinybox you do need the proper amplification level set at the selection switch or the signal can get baked at the pre-amp stage. Most (all?) Tinyboxes have that light indicator (the charging light). When you're running a show that also serves as a clip indicator (at least it does on mine). If you're recording that light should be solid green. If you see it blinking red when recording it is clipping internally. I always run medium (and maybe every once in a while need high) but at a festi one of the loud stages was way too loud. I saw the blinking light right away as they started and switched down to low. Baked a few seconds before I figured it out but the rest was fine.
I have the TB in the pocket when I >:D, but I will remove the gaffer tape and keep an eye on it....
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RE the Tinybox you do need the proper amplification level set at the selection switch or the signal can get baked at the pre-amp stage. Most (all?) Tinyboxes have that light indicator (the charging light). When you're running a show that also serves as a clip indicator (at least it does on mine). If you're recording that light should be solid green. If you see it blinking red when recording it is clipping internally. I always run medium (and maybe every once in a while need high) but at a festi one of the loud stages was way too loud. I saw the blinking light right away as they started and switched down to low. Baked a few seconds before I figured it out but the rest was fine.
I have the TB in the pocket when I >:D, but I will remove the gaffer tape and keep an eye on it....
It probably depends on where you run but you should be able to see it pretty quickly. With mine I cover an edge and the front of the light with tape but the top is still open so I can catch a glimpse of it. I have it on the chair or hold it (it's really rare I'm not seated at a show). Never really felt good about putting it in a pocket since that may crimp or bend wires/connections.
I think the rule of thumb for loud shows is to start on low and if you have levels on the recorder with that you're golden. If you start out wrong you will bake whatever happens before you see it.
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RE the Tinybox you do need the proper amplification level set at the selection switch or the signal can get baked at the pre-amp stage. Most (all?) Tinyboxes have that light indicator (the charging light). When you're running a show that also serves as a clip indicator (at least it does on mine). If you're recording that light should be solid green. If you see it blinking red when recording it is clipping internally. I always run medium (and maybe every once in a while need high) but at a festi one of the loud stages was way too loud. I saw the blinking light right away as they started and switched down to low. Baked a few seconds before I figured it out but the rest was fine.
I have the TB in the pocket when I >:D, but I will remove the gaffer tape and keep an eye on it....
It probably depends on where you run but you should be able to see it pretty quickly. With mine I cover an edge and the front of the light with tape but the top is still open so I can catch a glimpse of it. I have it on the chair or hold it (it's really rare I'm not seated at a show). Never really felt good about putting it in a pocket since that may crimp or bend wires/connections.
I have belt clip installed on mine and that makes it easy to put it in the pocket without bending cables....I usually set it to+18 db/mid and use the music of the PA and set the M10 to -36db. and this works almost every time...I adjust levels at the end of the 1st song and adjust in post at the PC..
I think the rule of thumb for loud shows is to start on low and if you have levels on the recorder with that you're golden. If you start out wrong you will bake whatever happens before you see it.
My mistake is that I don't go to loud shows normally...but I will try to tape the Swans in November...;-))
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My mistake is that I don't go to loud shows normally...but I will try to tape the Swans in November...;-))
My ears these days tell me that approach is not a mistake... I can't really hack them anymore myself, though it seems they don't run things as loud as they used to in big places. Clubs though... YOYO.
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For even moderately loud shows, you have to run the TB at "low" gain. I too have been burned by the "med" gain setting.
Edit: I should add that my TB v2.2 has "standard gain" (4/18/32) and provides 53V polarization for the caps. I started out using the medium/+18 gain since that sounds reasonable for 99% shows given the rest of the rig. All was good for awhile then I had a few brickwalled.
I have done the same thing burned by medium and low when I had one.
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Haven't had any issues running +18db on my TB which I always use unless I'm within 20' or so of the stacks....maybe the internal battery is going?
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Yeah, I also run my tinybox at the lowest gain setting for loud rock shows. And even with that, I had to set my M10's levels to 2 (two!) at a recent outdoors festival when taping from in front of the line arrays. The recording sounds fine, though. That's also why I ordered my IPA with gain settings of 0/9/18dB. Don't really need any gain at most of the shows I tape anyway...