Topic: Help me with this Room!

[BJ]

ok, So I have officially moved into my new house...I have a dedicated Theatre/listening room now, however it is odd shaped (Damnit)...Im looking for suggestions now, and I DO have a very limited budget and some constraints.  I plan on pickin up a Sony 2000es or 3000es as my receiver but I dont know which speakers or combination of speakers would work best in my budget and also the PLACEMENT of these speakers...
I would REALLY like to get a decent set of 2 channel for listening, and match the other two channels fo a cheaper speaker(but still sound decent) for surround/theater applications.

Budget:  around 400-600$ for speakers(yes I KNOW THIS SUX) but after closing costs and everything, its about all i can afford...

constraints:
     1.  Room, odd shaped, see diagram below( I will update with correct measurements tonight)
     2.  There is a fireplace at one end, so I don't want my electronics to close to that.
     3.  My wife doesn't want a two channel system, she likes the idea of a theatre and doesn't want to lose the Surround Sound (5.1) 

so bring on the suggestions/comments whatever....i need help...i MIGHT could swing a little higher budget if it was close...and it the option was a very viable option

[Daryan]

I strongly encourage you to visit the acoustics circle at audiocircle.com and post this there.  You will get much better responses as far as practicality.  Honestly, on your budget, you will be MUCH happier going with two channel to start.  I can't even think of a 5 channel system worth a hoot at that cost, though the rocket elt's :::might::: be in that range and they do sound decent. 

As far as treating that room, and including waf, I seriously doubt you will be able to come in at budget to be honest.  You are going to have one horrid reflection point on that wall to the right, and another bass problem in that far corner as well as all the corners for that matter.

On the cheap, use foam to start with IF the woman accepts, which in theory souds nice, practice, not so much I would guess.

Recs:

rocket elt's, http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=13, 200 over budget and 2 channel performance would be comprimised IMHO.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=42.1, cheaper, haven't heard them.

My best reccomendation would be to skim more on the receiver.  Any of the new jvc hybrid's, panasonic xr series, etc will get you where you want to be without the added cost of the Sony.  I know everyone here loves it, and that's fine, but at 600 bucks I think you can do just as well at 200-300 and have money left over to invest in speakers.   Speakers will make a much more noticeable improvement than an amplifier at these price levels and again IMHO.


Good luck to you and your purchase!

Last item, cheap supplier of foam is foambymail.com

[BJ]

thanx for the help daryan +t for the suggestions, Ill give it all a look, and try to post on the other site.

I am still hoping some others will chime in with their opinions too...but I honestly think most will reflect your thoughts as it was mine too...

[Daryan]

I'll post some more this evening, your thread has me intrigued and I am in no work mode today for some reason!

[Daryan]

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AthenaTechnologiesMicra6p1.html

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/Tannoy_FX5.1_review_p1.html

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

What is your video playback: tube, panel, projector?  What kind of furniture do you have?  How long are the fire place and deck seasons?

I have a similarly shaped room.   I have a tendency to be selfish about setting up the listening room and if you can go that way, you'll get lots of good info to that end on any of the audio forums already mentioned.  But I think you need to consider that you'll have guests and especially if your partner likes video you're going to have to accomodate her needs for a group friendly room.  Also I think you should design the room so that is flows from the kitchen to the deck with out someone running into your gear.

If I was to set up that room using the constraints: gear away from fire place and need to access the deck, I would set up my monitor and mains at the top of the room oposite the fireplace and get a very heavy drape over those windows so that it will block light and sound reflections.  Center the monitor and speakers according to the lower part of the room.  Then use the area in the lower part for furniture.  You can always rearrange seating depending on seasonal use of the deck and fireplace.  That layout would allow you to get the speakers away from the wall.  I'd use the bump out area to place media cabinets.   If you can, I'd also change that door to the kitchen so it hinges open against the horizontal wall and not the vertical wall.  That will give you better flow from the kitchen and allow a bigger media cabinet against the right side wall. 


As for speakers, I really can not suggest this strongly enough: for your budget of $600 you should get good 2 channel monitors.  The quality of a $600 set of surround sound speakers is going to be less than 1/4th the sound quality of the good used pair.   I fluff the VSA stuff right now so I'd recommend getting a used pair of VR1 monitors as your main speakers.  Many people report excellent results with them as mains.  You'll get plenty of imaging out of them to satisfy during movies.  Then in a year, get either another set of VR1s for the rear channels or a pair of VR2 ( or VR4s ;-) for the mains and move the VR1s you have to the rear position.   I recommend this because if you are planning to listen to music or concert videos a lot, you'll get much more satisfaction from the better stereo pair.   

There are some room design websites that have a flash tool that allows you to layout different roomm designs.  I'll try to find the one I used and post it's link. 

[BJ]

What is your video playback: tube, panel, projector?  What kind of furniture do you have?  How long are the fire place and deck seasons?

video playback as of now is a 36 in tv, I HOPE to be upgrading to a flat panel wide screen around feb of next year(if all goes well)  furniture..well...right now i have two chairs and a matching sofa (neither the wife nor I are totally happy with these, so we havent decided if they are staying or going...) suggestions on furniture as well??

the fire place is about 4 foot wide...the rock ledge( goes all the way accross...see pic below)

deck seasons??

I have a similarly shaped room.   I have a tendency to be selfish about setting up the listening room and if you can go that way, you'll get lots of good info to that end on any of the audio forums already mentioned.  But I think you need to consider that you'll have guests and especially if your partner likes video you're going to have to accomodate her needs for a group friendly room.  Also I think you should design the room so that is flows from the kitchen to the deck with out someone running into your gear.

def...she LOVES to entertain people..so this is the room...and we have superbowl partys and shit....

If I was to set up that room using the constraints: gear away from fire place and need to access the deck, I would set up my monitor and mains at the top of the room oposite the fireplace and get a very heavy drape over those windows so that it will block light and sound reflections.  Center the monitor and speakers according to the lower part of the room.  Then use the area in the lower part for furniture.  You can always rearrange seating depending on seasonal use of the deck and fireplace.  That layout would allow you to get the speakers away from the wall.  I'd use the bump out area to place media cabinets.   If you can, I'd also change that door to the kitchen so it hinges open against the horizontal wall and not the vertical wall.  That will give you better flow from the kitchen and allow a bigger media cabinet against the right side wall. 

as for a drape..she wants real heavy(dark) velvet....will that work??  any other treatments recommended?(daryan suggest bass traps)
as for centering for the lower part of the room...with the two in front..wont that make them sound really weird bouncing off the side wall be the kitchen door? but yes..placing the media etc here sounds great...  and the door is already opening that way..im just a moron and drew that in a hurry

As for speakers, I really can not suggest this strongly enough: for your budget of $600 you should get good 2 channel monitors.  The quality of a $600 set of surround sound speakers is going to be less than 1/4th the sound quality of the good used pair.   I fluff the VSA stuff right now so I'd recommend getting a used pair of VR1 monitors as your main speakers.  Many people report excellent results with them as mains.  You'll get plenty of imaging out of them to satisfy during movies.  Then in a year, get either another set of VR1s for the rear channels or a pair of VR2 ( or VR4s ;-) for the mains and move the VR1s you have to the rear position.   I recommend this because if you are planning to listen to music or concert videos a lot, you'll get much more satisfaction from the better stereo pair.

yea...i know this...but i just dont know if she wants to wait a year or whatever...i am REALLY looking at those m22ti's...those are within my budget...not sure about the surround tho...she may HAVE to wait  (great way to start off in a new house huh?)   

There are some room design websites that have a flash tool that allows you to layout different roomm designs.  I'll try to find the one I used and post it's link. 

that would be great...

+t for everything

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AthenaTechnologiesMicra6p1.html

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/Tannoy_FX5.1_review_p1.html

d..thanx for the links...i was looking HARD at that tannoy setup....you can get brand new ones off ebay for 300+ shipping..hard to beat...

keep it up guys!  i LOVE to spend every last penny i have!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

video playback as of now is a 36 in tv, I HOPE to be upgrading to a flat panel wide screen around feb of next year(if all goes well)  furniture..well...right now i have two chairs and a matching sofa (neither the wife nor I are totally happy with these, so we havent decided if they are staying or going...) suggestions on furniture as well??

Furniture is a personal thing but if it were me I'd go with what you have and a big ottoman.  I would not put a table in the center of the room.  Not using a table in the middle gives you plenty of room to move around and you won't get reflections off the table.  We use side tables for drinks and leave the center open in our house.   A big ottoman can provide additional seating for two and storage inside and you can always put a tray on it if you need a surface.  Also if you don't have a fixed piece in the middle of the room, you can move a stuffed chair into the middle/sweet spot for those critical listening sessions.

the fire place is about 4 foot wide...the rock ledge( goes all the way accross...see pic below)
deck seasons??

deck season = do you use the deck all year or just for limited summer mopnths?  I don't know where you live.  If you live where the deck is not used for some months due to snow and ice, you can position furniture in front of those doors and open up room around the fireplace.  In the summer if you don't use the fire place, put the couch in front of it if you want.

as for a drape..she wants real heavy(dark) velvet....will that work??  any other treatments recommended?(daryan suggest bass traps)
as for centering for the lower part of the room...with the two in front..wont that make them sound really weird bouncing off the side wall be the kitchen door? but yes..placing the media etc here sounds great...  and the door is already opening that way..im just a moron and drew that in a hurry

Yes, it will make the sound a little wierd.  In my house I have a set up like that and it shifted the image.  I was getting reflections from the left wall and no reflections from the right side.  (Actually, right side reflections were so delayed and attenuated that they didn't have  the impact of the first refelction point to the left side).  I put free standing accoustic pannels along that left wall, effectively 4'x4', and the image came right back where it should be.

In your case, just get the heavy drapes with an accoustic liner to cover the sliding glass doors and that will take care of it.  Close those drapes when you want to kill the refections.  It won't be that bad anyway and in the months when you have the glass door open, you'll lose those reflections.

I agree that you could put in bass traps.  I would start with tube traps in the rear corners and maybe an accoustic panel on the wall opposite the sliding door to balance the effect of the drapes.  I'd also start with a panel in the bumpout on the wall that opposes the right speaker and that will kill a lot of the effect of the echo from in there.    With a bunch of overstuffed furniture, you don't want the room to get too dead.

yea...i know this...but i just dont know if she wants to wait a year or whatever...i am REALLY looking at those m22ti's...those are within my budget...not sure about the surround tho...she may HAVE to wait  (great way to start off in a new house huh?)   

If I were you, I'd make a deal with her to get high end two channel speakers now and then next feb upgrade the mains instead of getting a widescreen panel.  Your big tube is plenty good for a room that size.  Panels are going to continue to drop in price and the speaker upgrade would get your to a high end multi channel system.  Has she ever heard a playback system with good imaging?  She might be able to live with that for a year.   

If you must have multichannel, another option is to get the good $600 front speakers and get some decent all weather/outdoor deck speakers in the $150 range off ebay and use them as rears initially.  Then when you do the upgraded mains, put the deck speakers outside on the deck.  Cheap deck speakers in that range will sound as good as the rears you get in a $500 surround system.

[BJ]

If I were you, I'd make a deal with her to get high end two channel speakers now and then next feb upgrade the mains instead of getting a widescreen panel.  Your big tube is plenty good for a room that size.  Panels are going to continue to drop in price and the speaker upgrade would get your to a high end multi channel system.  Has she ever heard a playback system with good imaging?  She might be able to live with that for a year.   

If you must have multichannel, another option is to get the good $600 front speakers and get some decent all weather/outdoor deck speakers in the $150 range off ebay and use them as rears initially.  Then when you do the upgraded mains, put the deck speakers outside on the deck.  Cheap deck speakers in that range will sound as good as the rears you get in a $500 surround system.

ok....lets play this game...with my budget...what "high end two channel speakers" could I get...i mentioned that I was looking at the m22ti's...how much are the vr1's?  i can't even BEGIN to spell that to start searching hte intertent..von schwe?)(*&%#&*^    would any outdoor speaker do?  we do have a pool..so this might work well, as we could move them outdoors too....without much risk/loss if something did happen to them...

IF i was to get the 2 channel...do most not need an additional sub???

thanx for the help man...i have never had the ching nor the room to do this...I will try to find time to go read some of the links posted earlier...but its much easier when people can at least POINT you in the right direction to read...otherwise i can get lost quite easily....

[eric.B]

von schweikert

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von schweikert


do i win the spelling bee...?

[scervin]

I agree with everything Lil Kim has said.  If you do go with the flat panel next year you could always move that above the fireplace and use that part of the room.  I would worry about light coming in from behind though with the big window. 

[BJ]

I agree with everything Lil Kim has said.  If you do go with the flat panel next year you could always move that above the fireplace and use that part of the room.  I would worry about light coming in from behind though with the big window. 

thanx, i was hoping you would chime in, as you seem to be up on all this schtuff from what I have read on other threads.  I really dont care to much about the fireplace in that room, not sure what I want to do back there, as we have another living room with another fireplace that we have used as the "formal living room".  I will keep the tv and stuff in front of the big window...

I have tenative plans now to FINALLY build myself a huge cd rack/shelf on that top right wall(lil kims media suggestion) for all of my cds/dvds now....

ugg..so much to do...so little money to do it...

thanx guys...another round of t's!

[scervin]

If you don't care about it.... cap it and rip it out!  Would make for a nice little room back there.  Or just block it off with something and set the room up in front of it.  I've seen this done.