Topic: Tips on Recording Live Shows?

[BlueEyes17el]

So when my favourite band goes on tour again at the end of next year or summer of 06 (they might be doing random shows in the states earlier I might try to attend), I plan to be fully prepared. I'm getting a new camcorder solely for the purpose of recording the shows. Now, it might be tricky since we're not even allowed to bring cameras in, but I'll try anyways. So I'm planning on getting a REALLY small cam, hoping for the Sony MicroMV. Anyone have any tips for me?? Please? 

[BJ]

welcome aboard!  +t

first tip:  don't get caught!

actually...im sure some stealthers will join in here shortly....i haven't done much with stealth..esp video....

[sidewalksnoozer]

So when my favourite band goes on tour again at the end of next year or summer of 06 (they might be doing random shows in the states earlier I might try to attend), I plan to be fully prepared. I'm getting a new camcorder solely for the purpose of recording the shows. Now, it might be tricky since we're not even allowed to bring cameras in, but I'll try anyways. So I'm planning on getting a REALLY small cam, hoping for the Sony MicroMV. Anyone have any tips for me?? Please? 

i started stealthing shows in 03. here are a few suggestions:
1. bring a 'buffer' (person to stand/sit with you). they can be endlessly helpful. all you need is a nudge from them to let you know security is coming and it's time to cover up.

2. location - if you know the venue well get seats that are raised up and kind of off the beaten path. balconies are a huge plus. also think about where you'll be in relation to walkways/human traffic. if you are unable to get the seats you want, get good seats early (when the concert goes onsale) and when the show happens go to somebody with a seat that you want and trade them. if it's a smaller venue look for tables that are lifted up

3. no matter how you decide you are going to hold/hide your camera you have to find a way were you can use the viewfinder. if you don't you'll just end up with a whole lotta drift/shaking and your efforts will be wasted. devising a system to not look too out of the ordinary and being able to look through the viewfinder are PARAMOUNT.

4. extra tapes/finished tapes - when you have to change tapes, either give the tape to your buffer or put it somewhere it won't be found. i was workin on a 2cam mix with my buddy and he got popped at the end of the show. luckily he had stashed his first tape in his sock, so they only got the 2nd tape from him and i got the whole show... so it worked out. having a hiding place or a blank to make the old switcheroo with is a great safety net.

5. battery. dunno who your favorite band is, but mine plays longer than 80 minutes, which means you need an extended battery. these can have up to 7-8 hours of life. they cost around 100 bucks. get one the day you get your camera if you intend to film, you'll need it.

6. digital zoom - i would suggest never using this feature. it will make the footage very pixelated and shaky. if you fear your optical zoom isn't enough - get an extender lens.

7. always preview security before going in. know who the weak guys are and make sure to go to them when entering.

i hope this helps. i was just rattling off some things that i thought of right away that you'd wanna know.

sounds like there are some other experienced tapers in here too, surely they will have some helpful hints too.

also - good luck =)

[NOTHINGFAN]

Those are great tips, thank you.

[taktheride]

I wouldn't get the MicroMV
Get a dv camera, the flexability of dv is THE positive.  Every editing app edits dv.  Only a few edit MV.  AND If I'm not mistaken, microMV records in mpeg2.  I've used both, I like dv better.  Hope this helps.

[sidewalksnoozer]

Those are great tips, thank you.

as luck would have it i'm a pj taper too... =)

[NOTHINGFAN]

Those are great tips, thank you.

as luck would have it i'm a pj taper too... =)

Very cool!  Do you have any other suggestions you can posts?  I plan on taping a show or two this next tour.  If we happen to tape the same shows, I'll keep in touch.

I have just about every PJ dvd in circulation at this time, can you tell me some of the work you have done?

[sidewalksnoozer]

Those are great tips, thank you.

as luck would have it i'm a pj taper too... =)

Very cool!  Do you have any other suggestions you can posts?  I plan on taping a show or two this next tour.  If we happen to tape the same shows, I'll keep in touch.

I have just about every PJ dvd in circulation at this time, can you tell me some of the work you have done?

i shot the center shot of benaroya, the complete grand rapids and the wiltern ev set.

only benaroya is in circulation at the moment, as you know.

[BlueEyes17el]

I wouldn't get the MicroMV
Get a dv camera, the flexability of dv is THE positive.  Every editing app edits dv.  Only a few edit MV.  AND If I'm not mistaken, microMV records in mpeg2.  I've used both, I like dv better.  Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info! After doing some more research, I've decided on the Sony  DCR-HC42 MiniDV Handycam® Camcorder
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DCRHC42&Dept=dcc_DICamcorders&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders&INT=sstyle-dcc_DICamcorders-feat_02-DCRHC42

with the 25mm 2.0X High Grade Telephoto Conversion Lens.

So that'll be 24x optical zoom in total. I'm going to buy it on Friday. Getting a sweet deal on it too!

[sidewalksnoozer]

I wouldn't get the MicroMV
Get a dv camera, the flexability of dv is THE positive.  Every editing app edits dv.  Only a few edit MV.  AND If I'm not mistaken, microMV records in mpeg2.  I've used both, I like dv better.  Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info! After doing some more research, I've decided on the Sony  DCR-HC42 MiniDV Handycam® Camcorder
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DCRHC42&Dept=dcc_DICamcorders&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders&INT=sstyle-dcc_DICamcorders-feat_02-DCRHC42

with the 25mm 2.0X High Grade Telephoto Conversion Lens.

So that'll be 24x optical zoom in total. I'm going to buy it on Friday. Getting a sweet deal on it too!

is there a particular feature that is drawing you to that one?

the only reason i ask is because both 'lesser' models have 20x optical zooms. so i mean if there's something about the 42 you really want/need... then go for it. but personally i think you can never have enough optical zoom, especially if you are stealthing and may have to set up far away to shoot.

edited cuz i accidentally put my comment in your quote.

[NOTHINGFAN]

I wouldn't get the MicroMV
Get a dv camera, the flexability of dv is THE positive.  Every editing app edits dv.  Only a few edit MV.  AND If I'm not mistaken, microMV records in mpeg2.  I've used both, I like dv better.  Hope this helps.

is there a particular feature that is drawing you to that one?

the only reason i ask is because both 'lesser' models have 20x optical zooms. so i mean if there's something about the 42 you really want/need... then go for it. but personally i think you can never have enough optical zoom, especially if you are stealthing and may have to set up far away to shoot.



Thanks for the info! After doing some more research, I've decided on the Sony  DCR-HC42 MiniDV Handycam® Camcorder
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DCRHC42&Dept=dcc_DICamcorders&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders&INT=sstyle-dcc_DICamcorders-feat_02-DCRHC42

with the 25mm 2.0X High Grade Telephoto Conversion Lens.

So that'll be 24x optical zoom in total. I'm going to buy it on Friday. Getting a sweet deal on it too!

He's right, I just bought one off of ebay for $202.50 that has a 22x optical zoom.  Might not be as good as a camera as that one, but, I figured I'd go with the one with the most optical zoom.  Then, if I wanted, I can always get an extender lens.

Here is the one I just bought...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3875091293&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

[taktheride]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

[NOTHINGFAN]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

I feel alot better about my decision then.  Thank you.

I can't wait to actually use it.

[sidewalksnoozer]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

is that just opinion or is that based on a technological fact?

[NOTHINGFAN]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

is that just opinion or is that based on a technological fact?

It kind of sounds like it might have been based on good past experiences.  I could be wrong though.

[taktheride]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

is that just opinion or is that based on a technological fact?

It kind of sounds like it might have been based on good past experiences.  I could be wrong though.

I'd say a bit of both....  canon lenses have been glass for a LONG time, back to vhs days.  sony used cheap plastic, but they may have cleaned up their act recently (the most recent gen of 3 ccd cameras)  But those are wicked expensive.
i've used both and the canon is better... to me..

[hyperplane]

Canon makes the best lenses on dv cameras.  I"ve owned two.  a good decision.

that might actually be true, but i can say from experience that the Canon ZR70 i owned made shite picture quality compared to either of my Sony DV cams (one digital8 and one miniDV). sure, it had 20x optical zoom, but if the picture is utterly grainy, i could care less about how much of a close-up i can get. but then again, after having the misfortune of owning a ZR70, i read a lot of comments by other owners saying the ZR series Canons had poor picture quality in situations with low lighting (read: lighting without having a professional gaffer to set up before filming).

just my 2 cents. i'd rather have a sharper picture and have to get a lens doubler than a picture grainier-than-a-beach on the Atlantic coast while being able to see the pores on the singer's face.

[taktheride]

sure, it had 20x optical zoom, but if the picture is utterly grainy, i could care less about how much of a close-up i can get. but then again, after having the misfortune of owning a ZR70

Having not used that camera, I can't say anything about it.  But are you sure the digital zoom had not kicked in when it got grainy?  Optical zoom does not cause grain.   I leave the digital zoom on my dv camera turned off, I find it rather useless.  Unless the camera is on a tripod, digital zoom will make viewers sick cause often you can't hold it still enough with it zoomed out all the way and keep it from shaking horribly.

[Yeedog]

I have a canon and they are good cameras but they are not the best in low light situations from what i've seen with fan made DVDs and the few shows I've recorded.    I've seen alot better video come out of Sony cameras and have heard they do perform better in low light situations.

[wilsondmb]

my canon zr60 has done horrible in low light conditions very black.....looking at getting a sony pc100

[sabre]

Most camera's have built in AE settings which come in very useful. Use the "spotlight" AE setting when shooting concerts in low light conditions. Even if there is ample light, I still recommend using the "spotlight" AE setting.

There is another setting which is slightly better, the "Sunset & Moon" AE setting, but it forces you to use the manual focus. If you're competent with using manual focus then use this setting, otherwise the "spotlight" setting will be fine.

[dklein]

I'll agree with the above that Canons (and the Panasonic I tried) suck in low light and Sony (at least my TRV18) seems to do very well.

[Ed.]

I'll agree with the above that Canons (and the Panasonic I tried) suck in low light and Sony (at least my TRV18) seems to do very well.

i have a panasonic, it sucks in low light.  i can affirm that.  however, its all i got, and it still gets the job done until i can get something else.

[WolfmanDMB]

sorry to bring back the (almost) dead but i have a canon zr70mc and i taped a guster concert in what i consider to have been very low light and the video as well as the audio turned out much better than i expected. was worth the 320 for the complete package (extended battery, tripod, uv filter, bag, +++) on ebay. look for wiloughbys out of ny, ny if you are interested in a great refurbished camera at awesome prices.

[Ed.]

i think wiloughbys is where i got my digital camera from.  i ordered it about a week before christmas and it still hadn't came by the 23rd so i called them and they said there was a problem with my credit card, but couldn't get ahold of me.  I reordered the camera and they sent it out that day and i had it before noon on the 24th.  free of charge.  awesome service.

[GNRArnold]

I have used a Canon, Panasonic, and Sony dv cams to tape shows. The consumer Panasonic models(not the slightly larger 3ccd ones) with the 20x and up zoom have very lousy image stabilization- even some shakes on a rock solid tripod. You can achieve decent picture quality with the ZR70 by setting it to Spotlight mode and keeping the white balance at indoor/balanced. If the lights are really low at the show though, the spotlight setting will give you a dark picture. Sonys have excellent picture quality but their recent consumer end models lack popup viewfinders(a must if stealthing when security is walking behind you) and mic inputs.