Topic: Roland R05 and Chris Church preamp

[Frequincy]

I recorded a loud show last week and had distortion. The setup was CA14 Cards>CA9200>R05 (line in). Batteries were fresh and the level on the R05 was about 35 peaking about -12dB. I'm pretty sure I overloaded the 9200. I'm learning this pre still, so the mic input has a variable pot and the output has stepped gain. Being mostly a studio engineer, I'm used to mic preamps being the other way around with stepped inputs and a pot to trim the output going to the next device in the signal chain.

So my question is, should I run the input pot more conservatively and use the stepped output gain to reach desired levels on the R05? I think I had the input pot at maybe half, possibly more (it was dark) and the output at +10 on the CA9200.

[Church-Audio]

No I doubt you overloaded the 9200 its more likely you overloaded the R05 If you are doing loud shows I would not use more then 25 db of gain from the 9200 or else you will slam the input of the R05. You should aim for 25 db of gain from the 9200 and get the remainder from the R05. Using the record level. The problem with the level controls is you can have a situation where you have attenuated an already overloaded input by getting too much gain from the preamp anything above 25 db of gain is really for quiet shows or outdoor shows. Run the output level control on the 9200 at full.... Do not use it to attenuate the signal. Because you dont need attenuation you just need less gain from the 9200 and a bit more from your recorder to avoid overload.

[LikeASong]

I recorded a loud show last week and had distortion. The setup was CA14 Cards>CA9200>R05 (line in). Batteries were fresh and the level on the R05 was about 35 peaking about -12dB. I'm pretty sure I overloaded the 9200. I'm learning this pre still, so the mic input has a variable pot and the output has stepped gain. Being mostly a studio engineer, I'm used to mic preamps being the other way around with stepped inputs and a pot to trim the output going to the next device in the signal chain.

So my question is, should I run the input pot more conservatively and use the stepped output gain to reach desired levels on the R05? I think I had the input pot at maybe half, possibly more (it was dark) and the output at +10 on the CA9200.

If the recording level was 35 and it was peaking at -12dB, you definitely overloaded the R-05, not the preamp. I set my input level at 60 (safer way to see if you're overloading or not) and then play with the preamp gain.

[Frequincy]

Thanks. It's just so confusing when the meters are telling you one thing, and the recorder is receiving another. Just spoiled by meters on high end gear in the studio, going into a line level device.

[LikeASong]

Thanks. It's just so confusing when the meters are telling you one thing, and the recorder is receiving another. Just spoiled by meters on high end gear in the studio, going into a line level device.

Yeah, studio situation and gear knowledge is not always applicable when it comes to field recording Nevertheless, trial and error (and lots of questions to the veterans - not that I consider myself one of them at all!) is the way to go. Happy taping! I love my R-05 and hasn't failed me once!

[jbou]

Two big problems with portable recorders:  their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature".  It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels.  Shame!

What exactly is post ADC digital attenuation?

[LikeASong]

Two big problems with portable recorders:  their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature".  It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels.  Shame!

What exactly is post ADC digital attenuation?

It's the feature on the 2nd switch (at the back of your R-05). Page 48 from the owner's manual:

[LikeASong]

AGC = automatic gain control, that's a different evil.

ADC = analog-->digital converter.  What can happen is a hot input clips the ADC, resulting in a hard clipped signal that peaks at 0dBFS.  Then the recorder digitally attenuates that signal to -12dBFS, and its meters indicate a -12dBFS peak, so you think you have 12dB of headroom when you are already clipped.

The problem is improper metering and a useless "feature".

Damn, I got the AGC/ADC wrong, thanks for correcting me. Yeah, I didn't know what ADC was, thanks for the explanation. What an idiotic "feature"...

[Frequincy]

Two big problems with portable recorders:  their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature".  It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels.  Shame!

Heard and heard.

Iv'e been messing with the CA9200 and the R05 levels based on Chris's and LikeAsong's advice and am getting great results, thanks to you.

Sounding especially good after ran through some outboard hardware with transformers and tubes, gently of course