Topic: Am I hearing my UA5 or my mics?

[stvgray]

Newbie question....

I've just recorded my second show with my new rig after upgrading from AT822/Sony MD to Tascam DAP-1/home-digimod UA5/Oktava MK012s.

What I'm hearing is that the sound at my ears during the show and the sound going to tape are very different.

Seems like there's a lot more information in the upper mids/highs than my ears are picking up. It's as if the room were a lot more reverberant and brighter than my ears think it is. At the bluegrass show I did last night, this made the vocals and instruments sound confused and more distant than the show actually sounded.

So ... is this:
-- Just the way it always is with taping? (I always heard something similar with the 822/Sony MD rig)
-- The sound of my MK012s -- an emphasis in the "presence" or  "brightness" range, or maybe a depression in the warmth range?
-- The sound of my UA5 -- and perhaps the reason the Oades do a "warm" mod?

[Jason B]

What mic configuration where you running at the bluegrass show? How far back from the stage and PA were you? These may have influenced the sound of your recording.

[Chris K]

i have been to a few shows that i thought didnt sound quite right while i was there, but after listening to the show on tape i thought it sounded superb

ymmv

[nic]

i have been to a few shows that i thought didnt sound quite right while i was there, but after listening to the show on tape i thought it sounded superb

ymmv

yep and vice-a-versa.

unless you are running binaurals, your ears will rarely hear what your mics are hearing

[stvgray]

I was running X-Y about 40 feet back, in a big hotel ballroom. The X-Y config at that distance wound up pointing the mics just outside the mains.

[Jason B]

I was running X-Y about 40 feet back, in a big hotel ballroom. The X-Y config at that distance wound up pointing the mics just outside the mains.

The XY configuration may have caused the result you explained. XY often emphasizes the higher frequencies while lowering the low end. Also, with the room being a hotel ballroom, there was more than likely not nearly enough acoustical treatments on the walls to prevent reverb. It may have been loud enough to mask this to your ears, but the tape may tell the true story.

[zowie]

Especially hapeens when your mics are placed somewhere that your ears aren't.

There's a very small club I tape in where the jazz stand-up bass just overloads the place, but no similar problem on the tape.

[Tim]

how high was your stand?

some folks are hell bent on running their stand at 10+ feet all the time, a lot of times this is inappropriate given the setup of the pa. I like to run around 7-8 feet.

[plucks]

^^so true, so true

[BC]

I was running X-Y about 40 feet back, in a big hotel ballroom. The X-Y config at that distance wound up pointing the mics just outside the mains.

The XY configuration may have caused the result you explained. XY often emphasizes the higher frequencies while lowering the low end. Also, with the room being a hotel ballroom, there was more than likely not nearly enough acoustical treatments on the walls to prevent reverb. It may have been loud enough to mask this to your ears, but the tape may tell the true story.

Agreed, XY always seems to brighten things up a bit to me. I like it for bassy/boomy shows (and onstage), but not otherwise. ORTF has always sounded very accurate to how the show and room actually sounded (for better or worse).

Maybe next time try running a near coincident config like DIN, ORTF, or just point em' outside the stacks, this should give a warmer sound.

Good luck,
Ben

[stvgray]

Yeah, I'll do that -- try DIN or ORTF. Never have used either one.

Height -- I was only up about 6 feet, and the staff tried to run me out because people behind were complaining. So I suggested higher, and he said no -- so I suggested lower, and he said okay. So most of the show I was running about the same height as my head, as I was sitting in a folding chair.

Couldn't tell any difference in brightness between the two heights, or it was too subtle to pick it out.

[dklein]

Can you post a little sample?  Sounds like a potential l/r phase issue.

[marc0789]

I very rarely run x-y, even in shitty venues, unless it's clearly wretched AND has the potential to be super bassy. Crappy acoustics and bright sound, look out. Some awful results.

[sexymexi]

arent octava's notorious for being a little middy, and have a bit more high end?  i don't know, but i've found some tapes of shows like that are simular, bluegrass shows are weird to tape, for me at least, havn't come out like i wished they had...

[John R]

stv, did you get the info you needed?  here or at oade?

jr