Topic: Mics for Bells- anybody??

[andromedanwarmachine]

Hello Team,

this is a question which only a select few will be a in a position to respond to, I expect...

What mics am I best attempting to use for the collection of bells. By "bells", I mean serious size-of-a-car 13 ton Cathedral bells. I've recently been in a few positions to collect footage from these kinds of things at a distance & also at point-blank range and I have a feeling that my toy Sony condensers are a bit overwhelmed by them. The SPLs can be pretty high. The pads on my gear only go so far and I have a feeling the issue is before the recorder.

However, I don't think this is a thread about LEVEL at the recorder (I can sort that), it's about response and characteristics of the mics themselves.

Someone told me recently that for high SPL dynamic transient impulse type sounds, that dynamic mics offer a better return due to less sensitivity.

Can anybody recommend something that is sympathetic to the spectrum of bells and their SPLs...?

Thanks

JimP

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Good omnis.  Or subcards.

I use schoeps mk21's for recording Carillons from within the tower.  If I had great omnis, I would probably use those instead.  But I feel my mk21's are superior to my 4061 omnis.

[page]

Good omnis.  Or subcards.

+1

3 things you are juggling;
- max spl before clipping of the mics
- mic output sensitivity (mv/pa)
- max input on your recorder.

If you worry that the bells are too loud, than you need a max spl upwards of 145spl. That's SD condenser/dynamic territory. You'll need to calculate what that 145spl would be like given the mv/pa rating of your mics. That's not particularly hard to do given table one here. Last, you'll need to find a recorder which can handle a signal that is listed as your max output garnered from table 1 and the spl you think will be put out.

Also, don't stand next to your mics when you close mic this stuff...  (and yes, I'd estimate it's upwards of 145spl)

[mosquito]

Oh, wow.

Bear with me here, it just sounds like a fantastic opportunity and it could be done so many different ways.

Are you going to be recording carillons or just a couple of big bells together?  Do you want to document the precise sound of each bell, or are you interested in capturing the sound of the entire instrument (i.e. possibly including the building and or reflections from nearby buildings and other things in the environment)?  What's the ultimate purpose?  For a bell-making company's records, for a documentary, for change ringers to share among themselves, for a concert recording?

Depending on all of those I might want to record anywhere from two to eight tracks and could need / want very high SPL mics or just might want a few sets of good, clean condensors. 

For what I've envisioned just now, I'm dreaming that you're working on a documentary on carillons and want some variety in kinds of recordings where one might go for:

1) a very artistic recording of a performance that includes
    - a pair of mics hung somewhere 20' straight out from the side the building in the instrument's sweet spot,
    - a pair near the ground in the best location people can normally hear it from,
    - a pair in the keyboard room
    - a pair pointed away so that reflected sound could be captured

2) Some "IN YOUR FACE" recordings of the bells from a few feet away

3) Recording in the keyboard room to also capture the sound of the keyboards

I'm thinking only 2) would need the very high SPL mics and you might be able to get away without recording from right next to them (so you still might not need the very high SPL mics). 

Unfortunately, I can't give you specific advice, but maybe someone at these sites can help (If we can't):

http://cccbr.org.uk/bellrecordings/   (and http://cccbr.org.uk/ )
http://www.gcna.org/recordings.html  (and http://www.gcna.org/ )

Let us know how it goes!

[kleiner Rainer]

Hi all,

I recorded Boudewijn Zwart playing the famous Westertoren carillon in Amsterdam with my PCM-M10, using the internal omnis. No problems despite very high SPL. Sensitivity was set to low, manual level control. The M10 was placed on a soft surface (foam) on the wooden stair leading from the keyboard room to the bells, the trap door leading to the bells was open. It is a fine recording of a fascinating performance - Boudewijn played his version of J. S. Bachs violin concerto in E major (BWV 1042) - Allegro.

Recommended viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IiXm8FZVY

another brilliant performance, this time in Dordrecht:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yLZ8kICKo

I just love this type of heavy metal!

Greetings,

Rainer

[andromedanwarmachine]

MK 21s... thanks 'eleven- that's very useful, I'll look into it...

Page; how do you mean "SD" condenser/dynamic territory?

thanks mosquito- I'm aiming for a the sound as people would hear it externally to the building, although I having said that; I don't turn down the tower option when I get it. Generally I'm trying to replicate how people would recognise the building from the peal or chime externally... I don't have the gear to mic all the positions as descibed and I'm trying to collect the whole country which means, if I can, to get a couple of locations each Sunday so setup is quick! (you can hear how it's going from the relevant Soundcloud link)

Hey Rainer- that's amazing; I've only come across a couple of keyboard operated locations so far but that's got to be a peach! Good use of foam under the machine. I'd like to hear that take.

Thanks everyone!

JimP

[Gutbucket]

Page; how do you mean "SD" condenser/dynamic territory?

Dynamic mics and small diaphram condensors (abreviated SD or SDC) often tollerate higher SPLs before overload than large diaphram condensors (LDC).  Expect high SPLs when recording near the bells.  Both the maximum SPL before overload point and a lower level at which the mic reaches a specific distortion figure are often indicated in the microphone specifications.

I'll add another vote for using small-diaphram condesor omnis for this.

[Myco]

M270 Microtech Gefell omni's, all the way.