Topic: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?

[Argitoth]

I'm trying to decide which mobile recorder to get. Please help! I narrowed it down to:

Sony PCM-M10
Zoom H6
Roland R-05

Whichever is better for recording quiet sounds, that's the one I want. I've read many reviews, watched many videos, but I have yet to find a conclusive simple test as to which of these units' preamps have lower noise floor. (Edit: Not because the tests are bad, but because no test compares any of these on the list sufficiently)

I know this:
Everyone likes M10
Some say R05 has same noise or less nosie than M10
Some say Zoom H6 has "low noise", but no idea how that compares to the above.

I know Zoom H6 is a totally different beast from the other two, but the reason I'm considering buying it is because I need a multichannel setup in the future. It's only a matter of whether I need to buy another device or not after choosing a handheld.

Yes - you may suggest an option not on the list.

Just need a place to save links that others may find helpful in teaching and decision making. Will add links as I find them.
Guide to stereo micing: http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Mic-University/StereoTechniques.aspx
Guide to polar patterns: http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/microphone-polar-patterns/
Guide to condenser (aka capacitor) mics: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb98/articles/capacitor.html
Low-noise field recordings: https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/Rode_NT1-A_Mics/NT1-A_index.htm
Sonic Studios recordings: http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm
EIN chart: http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
Shootout (many examples): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXueWADX58s
Shootout (one sound clip): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3HCdmTujAU
Roland R26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJEsfmGEwwo
Roland R05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSb0Fzosa3M
M10 vs H4n: http://www.wildmountainechoes.com/equipment/comparing-the-zoom-h4n-and-sony-pcm-m10/
H2n ambient recording: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171145.msg2121703#msg2121703
Not the best comparison of Sony D50 / D100: https://soundcloud.com/sparrowsrest/comparison-recordings-made-with-the-sony-pcm-d50-pcm-d100-april-2014
voice test Sony M10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5w1ZwMhG8
voice test Tascam DR-44WL / Tascam DR-40 / Zoom H5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvncBP04nos
Guitar test Sony D50 / Zoom H6 / Rode NT4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S2eh0gkPSQ
Discussion of low noise mics: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/348812-whats-quietest-mic-available-lowest-noise-nature-recordings.html

[willndmb]

M10 all the way IMO
Unless you need a lower noise floor and the r05 actually has one there is no reason not to pick an m10

[Ozpeter]

You haven't said what you will use it with, if anything.  External mics connected directly, or via a preamp, or internals only?  Need more info!

[F.O.Bean]

M10 all the way IMO
Unless you need a lower noise floor and the r05 actually has one there is no reason not to pick an m10

Ditto. M10 no doubt! Check out the D100 vs. M10 COMP that Tonedeaf posted a few days ago! The M10 sounds just as good IMO!

[Argitoth]

You haven't said what you will use it with, if anything.  External mics connected directly, or via a preamp, or internals only?  Need more info!

both, at this point I don't care if you say the built-in mics are low noise or that the external mic pre amps are low noise. Either point makes me a happy camper.

That's
2 M10
0 R05
0 H6

Please if you have an opinion, chime in! All replies welcome, but I'm getting quite convinced already, may hit the metaphorical "buy" button soon.

[F.O.Bean]

I think the M10 shines the most when using it with external mics and an external preamp

[dmonkey]

I love my M10 so much I kiss it goodnight every night before I go to bed.

[Argitoth]

ok guys hold up hold up...

is the taperssection paid by Sony? .... are they "watching us"?? ...  *im scared*

cause if not, I don't think I can be unconvinced that the M10 is what I want.

[mitchellm]

I'm not answering your real question: so apologies for that.

If you are using a good preamp with almost any of these devices they should work quite nicely. I have the M10 and love it.

However, if you are NOT using an external preamp and you are recording quiet sounds (ambient, etc.) then something like the Sony D100 shines. It has a great internal preamp and have found it a great great recorder. But it's only worth the extra money (at least to me) if you might be using it without a preamp, and recording quieter sounds where the appearance of background noise will become much more apparent. If it's rock and roll, then something like the D100 isn't needed. If it's recording nature sounds as folio for a movie then the D100 is vastly superior to the others (again, assuming you are not using an external great preamp).

[Ozpeter]

Regular forum members please look away, you've heard this before...

There are only two downsides to the M10 and those are -

1 - the built in mics are closely spaced omnis, and that's no way to record a stereo image.  So although they sound fine, they are not suitable for anything where the stereo image is important.

2 - the control layout is a bit odd, but probably people get used to it.

Well, 3 - it doesn't have phantom powered xlr mic inputs, which may or may not be important to you.

[Argitoth]

1 - the built in mics are closely spaced omnis, and that's no way to record a stereo image.  So although they sound fine, they are not suitable for anything where the stereo image is important.

Expected, and not a problem for me!

2 - the control layout is a bit odd, but probably people get used to it.

I'm coming from using a Korg MR-1, a piece of **** waste of money, so expensive when I purchased it. (Now I'll wait for someone to ask why I hate it so much).

Well, 3 - it doesn't have phantom powered xlr mic inputs, which may or may not be important to you.

Expected, not a problem for me!

[Argitoth]

I'm not answering your real question: so apologies for that.

Your response is perfect!

However, if you are NOT using an external preamp...

I eventually want to get a pair of mics from www.sonicstudios.com and it'd probably be worth investing in an external mic pre at some point rather than spending more money on a mobile recorder... which, then the nice preamp is stuck with the unit. Edit: If I had the money, maybe I would buy the D100.

[Argitoth]

For PCM M10 what windscreen is recommended?

[Argitoth]

Well, I purchased a red PCM M10, I'm very happy with my choice. I've been needed a new handheld recorder for years. Since no one ask why I hate MR1 so much... oh let's see.

WARNING: RANT -->
1. Runs on internal rechargeable battery, last I heard it was an $80 replacement. Battery life was like 2 hours on arrival, but now battery life is nill. It won't stay on without being plugged in.
2. Oh, I can fix the above problem! Just connect the external battery pack it ships with! NOPE!!!!!!! I heard the battery pack even causes damage to the MR1 internal battery. Not even the battery pack will keep it going now. Not even USB power.
3. Crashes... oh the MR1 just crashed due to low battery... WELL GUESS WHAT YOU CAN'T USE IT UNTIL IT DRAINS ITSELF DRY OF ENERGY!
4. High-samplerate DSD recording my  a**. The noise is so bad above... I forget where, but basically the the above-human-hearing frequencies are completely destroyed by internal noise.
5. Ringing... not sure where this came from, but I got high frequency sinewaves if my mic was placed too close to metal. Could be the mics, could be the Korg.
6. Oh what other hells have I experienced? Lost recordings from it running out of batteries, not sure if this is normal for mobile recorders, but I'd think some intelligent firmware programmer would have the sense to save the file if battery is low and shut down cleanly.
7. OH! The mic that it shipped with. What in God's good earth were those s****y mics I got after I paid $700!!!???
8. oh yeah PRICE! $700!?!?!?!?!?! FOR THIS!?
9. IIRC i had a few harddrive or file corruptions.
10. oh OH OH!!! AND THE MOST... MOST  MOST infuriating thing, if all the above wasn't bad enough... keep in mind I would still be able to resell my Korg MR1 if it weren't for this problem... the g** d**m  wheel (for menu nav and volume adjustment) slowly began to stop responding. Want to change the gain? NOPE! NOOOOOOOPE!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*breath*
*breath*

I think I'm cured. Thank you Angry Joe for giving me the power of healing through angry rants.

[Argitoth]

Here you go actually, from a Sound on Sound review at the time of release:
http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/images/korgnoisespectrum_l.jpg

hmm... try this:


(my artist rendition of korg noise, not scientific data  )