Topic: Hypercard TLs

[BobW]

I've been blown away by the ADK A51 TLs in spaced Omni and Cardioid.

Does anyone have a solid example of these beasties used in Hypercardioid mode from a distance, like mebbe back in the taper's section ? Thinking about how they would stand up to an Arena show or maybe a large room, like the Orange Peel in Asheville(occupancy ~1000).

Anyone got a tune or two to share ?
Also, is anyone taping JMP/Vida Blue/Spam Allstars at the Orange Peel?
Sounds like the potential for one heckuva show.  

[Jason B]

I run them DIN with the hypers all the time in arenas and amphitheaters. I have never been dissapointed.

-JB

[wsp12]

you run vertical or horizontal din just curious? i thought i had seen some pics one time where it looked liked, i think you were running horizontal. ;DMike

[Jason B]

you run vertical or horizontal din just curious? i thought i had seen some pics one time where it looked liked, i think you were running horizontal. ;DMike

When running DIN, I run them vertical. I run them horizontal when in XY.

-JB

[phishn]

Here's a link to Phish 12-28-03 source using ADK TL's in hypercard mode.  I preferred and kept this source over the mk41v one.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=1438

[BobW]

Here's a link to Phish 12-28-03 source using ADK TL's in hypercard mode.  I preferred and kept this source over the mk41v one.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=1438

Thanks ! I'm all over this.
Just heard 11-7-03 moe from the Mezz with Hypercard TLs and was very impressed. They keep their cool from afar.

Adirondack Mountain Club sticker, in case you haven't seen it.
Real easy to find near Lake Placid, NY and Lake George, as well.
V
V
V
V

[Xpanding Man]

Here's a link to Phish 12-28-03 source using ADK TL's in hypercard mode.  I preferred and kept this source over the mk41v one.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=1438

OK, i'm biased, since i made the pull    but i also like the TL source more than any other source i've heard from that night...

 i wish i had recorded a few more nights with my rig....oh well.  

[phishn]

Thanks Xpanding for that pull..its the best one I have heard from the NYE run.  I wish you recorded the other nights too...  I was so impressed with these mics in hypercard mode from your tape.  I'm considering getting a pair of TL's but don't want to replace my warm mod ua-5..trying to decide if I should buy hypercard caps for the AKG bluelines, or sell the 391's and get the TL's.  I have a feeling the warm mod ua-5 may be too warm with these mics and may stick with the 93 caps.

[Craig T]

I have a feeling the warm mod ua-5 may be too warm with these mics and may stick with the 93 caps.

I don't think so.  I love the TL>wmod sound.  Here's a few shows for download if you want to hear that combo:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=4601
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=5298
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=4583

[phishn]

Thanks Craig T..ill check those out.

[phishn]

other drawback to consider is that the TL's aren't shotgunable where the bluelines are..

[Tim]

other drawback to consider is that the TL's aren't shotgunable where the bluelines are..

why oh why would you use a shotgun when you have hypers?

[phishn]

Limestone.

[nic]

" Limestone."

good luck on recording the wind  

[phishn]

yeah..word has it that the festival this year is in upstate NY somewhere....either way..i patched of of Jessee D Scott's 3 mic mix at IT..2 nak shotguns and 1 omni..very nice and no wind noticeable in that tape.

[Brian Skalinder]

no wind noticeable in that tape.

So no wind noise...no phasing, either?

[phishn]

there was some minor phasing..not much at all.  there was minor wind..maybe 2 -3 mph.  of course, the limestone TS being so far away from the stacks..there will likely be some due to distance even with the light wind.

[phishn]

anyhows..back to the discussion..TL's in hyper mode kicks major butt...and you brought up a good point brian..it would be silly to make a decision to keep the bluelines just because of the shotgun feature..which i would be lucky to use since outdoor contitions are rarely ideal..  I'm gonna check out some TL->warm mod sources and then make a choice..I was really impressed with the 12-28-03 ADK hypers tape pull...

[Tim]

Limestone.

huh? outdoors like that is the perfect time to use omni's...

shotguns, yeeech. they really don't sound very good at all, just run hypers.

[phishn]

this was a 3 mic mix and sounded fine..with the 3rd mic being an omni.

[ingsy]

yeah..word has it that the festival this year is in upstate NY somewhere....

not to spread rumors but....i heard phish will start w/ a west-coast festival and end the summer tour with an east-coast festival...anyone else heard this?  
in terms of this thread, i have checked out most of the TL -> WMod UA5 shows in the archive, and this is the combo i will be buying this month for my first rig!  i am no expert by any means, but i think (or am hoping) that it will lessen the focus on the High Frequencies (cybals, etc.) that i noticed when listening to most TL recorded shows...then again, my playback system is shit so who knows?

[BCostigan]

I too was patched out of JDS' 3 mic mix.   I agree that omnis at a large outdoor venue like that are ideal but all the stars were in line or something because I think the tapes sound great.  The guns eliminated 99% of the crowd without sounding phasy or narrow.

[Tim]

mixed with an omni I bet they do sound sweet....

[Chuck]

What kind of bar does everyone use to set the patterns on LD's.
I imagine there is something with markers set for distance on ORTF, DIN and NOS? How do you set the angle correctly? I'm sure XY would require special rigging too.  I've seen the pics of Moke's rig in XY with the capsules one on top of the other.
If anyone has any specific recommendations on which bar to get I'd appreciate it.

I've never run larger mics, only SD's. I'm eventually going to get a set of those TL's.

[junkbondking]

ive run my tl's in hypers at the la forum, t&m in vegas, and the miami arena for the first nite.  the first 2 were xy hyper, and a regular stero bar, with one mic about 3" below the other.  tapes came out sick in vegas thats for sure.  now i pretty much run din/ortf as the halls i run in are smaller.  

when phish does play the festival in reno, i'm ready to run 20' split onmis with anyone else in the LD family just for shits & giggles.

[Chuck]

I like the Shure Vert bar. I put the mounts on, and place the mics at 0* straight forward in the mount. When I achieve a 90* near coincident angle, I am @ 17.5cm which is nearly perfect DIN (depending on your interpretation of din). Opening the shure bar slightly more gets me to a slightly wide ortf, or I just rotate each mic slightly outward in each mount.
This is w/ the TL's in the standard issue black mounts.

http://www.shure.com/accessories/a27m.asp?P=acc-adapters&PN=Microphone%20Clips,%20Stand%20Adapters,%20Swivel%20Adapters
I stepped in and fixed the link to make it complete.....

Moke: this thing?

[Chuck]

Thanks Moke.
I'm probably going to get the TL set with the B&K matching and the "deluxe" shock mounts. I wonder if that'll make difference with the vertbar?

[nic]

I found it easier to set up X/Y with the TL's when using clamps as opposed to the vert bar/mic bar contraption, but thats just me

[pfife]

If you can save a few bucks from this..... The standard mounts are totally adequate. You can mount a mic upside down w/ no worries of it coming loose!! You could shake the shit out of the mount, and not effect the mics positioning in the mount, fwiw....

I taped a quiet show at a bar a couple days ago here in town w/ my TL's, hypers, in XY (using a vert bar) - someone knocked over the stand, and the post hit a table, and he caught it, and set it back up;

After I normalized the recording in SF6 (RMS, not sure the % off the top of my head), the recording sounded really, really good, and you can hear the stand moving, but  suprisingly it did not make a huge, nasty sound on the recording...noticable, but not completely terrible.  I am going to give credit to the shockmounts for that!

As for the recording in general, I think it is the best one I have made yet.  I love these mics.

Question though- you can get 17.5 cms, but how does the dollar measure the angle?  Using the corner as a right angle or something?  I have often wondered how you guys know that the diaphrams were 120 degrees, etc. - is this a estimate, or a measurement?

[marc0789]

Chinese mic, maybe Chinese bill do trick.  

[Chuck]

no ticky, no shirtee.......

I might be saying achtung sooner than you think!

Ya lookin' to unloaded the TL's? I'm in the\ market...  

[Jason B]

Thanks Moke.
I'm probably going to get the TL set with the B&K matching and the "deluxe" shock mounts. I wonder if that'll make difference with the vertbar?

I have both the stock mounts and the super mounts. You cannot run XY with the supermounts on a Shure vert bar. The mounts are too big. XY with the stock ones on a vert bar is a piece of cake. I got the supermounts for amphitheaters and arenas wher I will be running DIN on a normal AKG T bar.

-JB

[Tim]

calico - I use the standard akg t-bar for all my NC micing needs. I've just started dabbling in C techniques and for that I mount one mic on top of the stand and the other mic I clamp below it, check out "my rig" in the rig pics section.

[pfife]

There is slight "compass rose" decal on the top of the shure bar. This can be used to determine the rough angle, if you mount your mics striaght forward in the mounts at 0* straight on-axis. Then spread the mics until you can visually see a 90* spread on the "compass rose" decal.
Once I realized that the distance of a dollar bill achieved 90* @ 17.5cm thats all I use anymore. And if I want to achieve ortf @ 17.5cm, I just rotate each mic outward slightly, and evenly, to achieve the wider 110*angle (apprx.)
I really like the imaging I achieve at 90>100* DIN, so I generally either use the "compass rose", or a dollar bill.
I'm also becoming less fond of xy w/ these mics.

Keep in mind that I use the standard mounts w/ the TL's.

I've learned too much from you.  +T for lurking around here and answering all of my newbie q's

[Chuck]

Thanks Moke.
I'm probably going to get the TL set with the B&K matching and the "deluxe" shock mounts. I wonder if that'll make difference with the vertbar?

I have both the stock mounts and the super mounts. You cannot run XY with the supermounts on a Shure vert bar. The mounts are too big. XY with the stock ones on a vert bar is a piece of cake. I got the supermounts for amphitheaters and arenas wher I will be running DIN on a normal AKG T bar.

-JB

calico - I use the standard akg t-bar for all my NC micing needs. I've just started dabbling in C techniques and for that I mount one mic on top of the stand and the other mic I clamp below it, check out "my rig" in the rig pics section.

I've already got the AKG t-bar, so it looks like I'm all set.
I've always had bright mics, so I never messed around with XY much. At least in the beginning, I'll stick with NC configs.

It seems like most TL users are recommending the standard shocks. That would save some $$$.

[pfife]

Thanks Moke.
I'm probably going to get the TL set with the B&K matching and the "deluxe" shock mounts. I wonder if that'll make difference with the vertbar?

I have both the stock mounts and the super mounts. You cannot run XY with the supermounts on a Shure vert bar. The mounts are too big. XY with the stock ones on a vert bar is a piece of cake. I got the supermounts for amphitheaters and arenas wher I will be running DIN on a normal AKG T bar.

-JB

calico - I use the standard akg t-bar for all my NC micing needs. I've just started dabbling in C techniques and for that I mount one mic on top of the stand and the other mic I clamp below it, check out "my rig" in the rig pics section.

I've already got the AKG t-bar, so it looks like I'm all set.
I've always had bright mics, so I never messed around with XY much. At least in the beginning, I'll stick with NC configs.

It seems like most TL users are recommending the standard shocks. That would save some $$$.

They're nice.  get extra bands though.