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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5  (Read 124564 times)

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Offline junkyardt

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #345 on: November 12, 2018, 12:46:24 PM »
I have 2 of these.  In testing I got about 8 hrs with 2 channel phantom.  Small and light.....;


https://www.ebay.com/p/HyperGear-Usb-c-Qc-2-0-Power-Bank-12000mah-Portable-Battery/768368061

would be interested to see how much that changes when running 6 channels. i've been looking for a smaller, lighter alternative to my anker 26800+ PD, which is quite bulky and heavy to stealth with, but i'd also want the battery to be able to survive an entire show while running all 6 channels, while potentially taping 2-3 sets.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #346 on: November 12, 2018, 01:08:57 PM »
I run four channel all the time (mics + sbd so not phantom) and have never come close to running out of battery.  I use AA as backup which makes it easy to switch batterys if needed.  That said I only care one in my bag at a time.
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #347 on: November 12, 2018, 02:24:57 PM »
Does anyone have a .xml preset file they could share for running all 6 channels?  I'd rather just plug one in and tweak it as needed.
Mics: Schoeps MK 5 MP, Schoeps MK 8 MP, Schoeps MK 41 MP, KCY 250/5 > PFA
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Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #348 on: November 15, 2018, 01:37:43 AM »
Confirmed yet another bug in 2.2.1 custom mode. With gain set to basic, stereo outputs can only be set to post-fader, showing blue.

SD recommended going to advanced mode, but that would add a gain stage to the recording path. Downside of this issue is that 3.5mm output is post the gain stage, but I think I'll prioritize the recording path and stick with custom.

The tech said it ought to be fixed in 2.2.2.

3 coming soon...
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #349 on: November 15, 2018, 09:34:36 AM »
Confirmed yet another bug in 2.2.1 custom mode. With gain set to basic, stereo outputs can only be set to post-fader, showing blue.

SD recommended going to advanced mode, but that would add a gain stage to the recording path. Downside of this issue is that 3.5mm output is post the gain stage, but I think I'll prioritize the recording path and stick with custom.

The tech said it ought to be fixed in 2.2.2.

3 coming soon...


This goes back to the fact that they have never really explained the gain stage details. I would think this not actually a bug and just the way it is under custom mode.

Under advanced mode, with two gain stages, which I will call trim and fader, you might want outputs to be pre-fader, so that they reflect the trim level you have set, but not changes you have made for the mix (fader stage). In custom mode, there really is only post fader (fader is effectively trim). What would pre-fader be is this scenario? Just the incoming signal level?
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #350 on: November 15, 2018, 10:22:17 AM »
I don't pretend to know much about "pre" and "post" fade but Jbell and I have our stereo out setup so it's channel's 3&4 so we can patch out of each other for the sbd feed.  With it set to post fade (only option now) it's essentially a line level signal which is what we want when sending each other a sbd patch.  You can still use the front knob to fine tune but no need to set the gain in the output settings.
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #351 on: November 15, 2018, 10:41:47 AM »
This goes back to the fact that they have never really explained the gain stage details.

This. I really want to know how the "taper mode" we've all been using to make this act like a "normal" recorder actually works.
Recording:
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #352 on: November 15, 2018, 02:27:49 PM »
This goes back to the fact that they have never really explained the gain stage details.

This. I really want to know how the "taper mode" we've all been using to make this act like a "normal" recorder actually works.

I've been suggesting for awhile that there is actually no control of analog gain on the MixPre3/6/10. The analog input is wide open with excellent analog limiters. But any fader/trim control is of the digital signal post-ADC.

Recently I found this quote on Gearslutz regarding SD preamps from John Tatooles of Sound Devices. In the paragraph near the bottom about the 788T I've highlighted the relevant information:

"Quote:
The 442 preamps are very similar to the 302, MixPre, MM-1, and MP-1 preamps. These are all transformer-based and we take advantage of the passive step-up gain available by the transformer. This allows these preamps to draw very low power. Some advantage of transformers:

- draw low power
- provide galvanic isolation
- excellent sonic characteristics when using quality transformers

The downside of transformers:

- physically large for quality transformers
- poor/small transformers have distortion and limit bandwidth

The Lundahl transformers we use in the mixers are the best available, BAR NONE. That said, we had an opportunity when the 7-Series came out to rethink preamps.

The preamps in the smaller 7-Series, 702, 702T, 722, and 744T use discrete transistors (old school high-current parts). This is a great sounding circuit that we are very proud of. The preamp in these products was designed in 2003.

The preamps in the 788T were designed in 2008, and there are new topologies available that just didn't exist a few years ago. The 788T mic preamps are very similar in noise, dynamic range, distortion, performance etc. to the other design, but they are completely new, and (more importantly) completely digitally controlled. There is no analog audio running through a pot like in the old designs. This allows us precise gain matching between channels and a much more dB-linear gain curve. It also provides for hooks to control them, if we need to in the future.

The 788T preamps are also more power-efficient that the discrete transistors, which is important when you have eight of them.
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #353 on: November 15, 2018, 07:13:42 PM »

"There is no analog audio running through a pot like in the old designs. This "

The problem is that different people are told different things.

^ Based on several e-mails with SD, there are definitely two gain stages: 76 dB at the pre and 20 dB at the fader. They weren't super specific, but my interpretation of their responses is that the pre gain is analog and the fader gain is digital (or, at least, mostly so). In custom mode, with basic gain, they confirmed that it is a mix of the two stages, but wouldn't say where the digital portion kicked in. They did say that, due to their pre/ADC architecture, the analog and digital gain would be indistinguishable both audibly and visually (on the waveform). Not sure if that helps or not!

« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 07:15:26 PM by rippleish20 »
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Offline borjam

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #354 on: November 16, 2018, 02:41:59 AM »
I've been suggesting for awhile that there is actually no control of analog gain on the MixPre3/6/10.
Not surprising, even the PMD661mkii does it. Did you notice some slow and smooth response when you turn the knob quickly? That's a good thing, a worn potentiometer won't ruin your recorder in the future.

Quote
The analog input is wide open with excellent analog limiters. But any fader/trim control is of the digital signal post-ADC.
I was surprised by the presence of a 32 bit ADC, but I am pretty sure there is a digitally controlled analog gain (pre ADC and pre limiter) in the preamplifier. But it doesn´t make much sense to have a preamp gain after the limiter.

The 8 additional bits are probably helping to reduce the complexity of the analog circuitry by giving more headroom. But instead of reducing the ADC resolution in order to implement a digital limiter, what Zoom does in the F8n, probably they have "split the effort" but without compromising the 24 bit resolution of the ADC.

Quote
Recently I found this quote on Gearslutz regarding SD preamps from John Tatooles of Sound Devices. In the paragraph near the bottom about the 788T I've highlighted the relevant information:

The 442 preamps are very similar to the 302, MixPre, MM-1, and MP-1 preamps. These are all transformer-based and we take advantage of the passive step-up gain available by the transformer.
Beware, there was a mixer only MixPre (no numbers) before our beloved MixPre-number. I guess that description applies to it.

Quote
This allows these preamps to draw very low power. Some advantage of transformers:

- draw low power
- provide galvanic isolation
- excellent sonic characteristics when using quality transformers
And the MixPre's don't use transformers unless I am terribly wrong ;)

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It would be nice if they posted a broad description of what they've done if only to satisfy our geeky curiosity ;) I am amazed that they managed to do it at its price point.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #355 on: November 21, 2018, 08:59:10 AM »
For anyone wanting the Musician Plugin, Sound Devices is offering a generous Thanksgiving 30% discount.

UPDATE*** - When I tried to buy the plugin on Nov. 21, the checkout said the coupon code was not in the system. When I tried again just now (Nov. 25), it said the coupon had expired -- although the offer was between Nov. 21 - 26!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 09:13:00 PM by dogmusic »
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Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #356 on: December 05, 2018, 02:39:39 PM »
I may have missed something in the manual, but how do you skip to the next file in playback? I have tried just about everything i can think of to no avail.
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Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #357 on: December 05, 2018, 02:42:58 PM »
I may have missed something in the manual, but how do you skip to the next file in playback? I have tried just about everything i can think of to no avail.

Yeah, not super intuitive. If the file is in the same project, tap on the current file name on the home screen to get a listing of project files, then use headphone attenuator to select.
To go to another project, you have to go to the system menu, select project, then open.
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Offline junkyardt

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #358 on: December 05, 2018, 08:34:59 PM »
^^ on this topic, has anyone figured out a way to fast forward and rewind playback? i've not found a way. it's pretty annoying when i'm driving home from a show and want to listen to the recording and i recorded 20 minutes of house music before the show started, there's no way to just skip to when the show starts, i have to listen to that first 20 minutes as well.

Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #359 on: December 05, 2018, 08:38:08 PM »
^^ on this topic, has anyone figured out a way to fast forward and rewind playback? i've not found a way. it's pretty annoying when i'm driving home from a show and want to listen to the recording and i recorded 20 minutes of house music before the show started, there's no way to just skip to when the show starts, i have to listen to that first 20 minutes as well.

While playing, hold down the headphone attenuator and twist forward or back to get up to 16x speed forward or back. Still kinda slow/clunky, but works to get past the house music...
Schoeps MK41 x 2, MK22 x 2; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

 

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