Topic: Church Audio Equipment Advice Before Purchase

[earmonger]

I want to re-emphasize a point that was made earlier. If you are are recording loud bands like Tool, you don't need a preamp--all you need is a battery box.

[Church-Audio]

I want to re-emphasize a point that was made earlier. If you are are recording loud bands like Tool, you don't need a preamp--all you need is a battery box.

This customer wants to record and I quote "I want my equipment geared towards taping Tool (or other "prog", loud, quiet,loud)"

So yeah a preamp would be a good idea. In this case will he need much gain for loud shows no. My mics put out about -35 at 114db at 1k. So there are lots of reasons why you would want or need a preamp especially if you dont want to use your recorders gain. And like you mentioned there are situations where a battery box will work the only issue is sometimes you never know what you need until your at the venue. So if you have the $$ its better to get something that will do everything. Then something that will only do very loud shows.

[yates7592]

I want to re-emphasize a point that was made earlier. If you are are recording loud bands like Tool, you don't need a preamp--all you need is a battery box.

This customer wants to record and I quote "I want my equipment geared towards taping Tool (or other "prog", loud, quiet,loud)"

So yeah a preamp would be a good idea. In this case will he need much gain for loud shows no. My mics put out about -35 at 114db at 1k. So there are lots of reasons why you would want or need a preamp especially if you dont want to use your recorders gain. And like you mentioned there are situations where a battery box will work the only issue is sometimes you never know what you need until your at the venue. So if you have the $$ its better to get something that will do everything. Then something that will only do very loud shows.

Chris, you say your mics put out -35 at 114db - what units is this in - dB or what,

[Church-Audio]

I want to re-emphasize a point that was made earlier. If you are are recording loud bands like Tool, you don't need a preamp--all you need is a battery box.

This customer wants to record and I quote "I want my equipment geared towards taping Tool (or other "prog", loud, quiet,loud)"

So yeah a preamp would be a good idea. In this case will he need much gain for loud shows no. My mics put out about -35 at 114db at 1k. So there are lots of reasons why you would want or need a preamp especially if you dont want to use your recorders gain. And like you mentioned there are situations where a battery box will work the only issue is sometimes you never know what you need until your at the venue. So if you have the $$ its better to get something that will do everything. Then something that will only do very loud shows.

Chris, you say your mics put out -35 at 114db - what units is this in - dB or what,

I am always talking in db..

[F.O.Bean]

I want to re-emphasize a point that was made earlier. If you are are recording loud bands like Tool, you don't need a preamp--all you need is a battery box.

This customer wants to record and I quote "I want my equipment geared towards taping Tool (or other "prog", loud, quiet,loud)"

So yeah a preamp would be a good idea. In this case will he need much gain for loud shows no. My mics put out about -35 at 114db at 1k. So there are lots of reasons why you would want or need a preamp especially if you dont want to use your recorders gain. And like you mentioned there are situations where a battery box will work the only issue is sometimes you never know what you need until your at the venue. So if you have the $$ its better to get something that will do everything. Then something that will only do very loud shows.

I have run CA14 cards AND omnis, and a 9100 preamp, and for the $$$, its BY FAR the best bang for your buck IMO! Like Chris said, you may not NEED a preamp at most times, but why risk it? AND the preamps Chris makes can be used just like a battery box. Just keep the gain low on it and voila, you have a preamp acting like a battery box And Chris' gear is so cheap compared to most other external mics/preamps, then its VERY AFFORDABLE to just get a CA 9100/9200, especially since he ALWAYS has a sale going on for each and every month. The OP already has the Sony M10, so ALL he needs is a pair of CA mics, whether they are CA11s or CA14s, a CA preamp, and an 1/8">1/8" cable, and BAM, he has a low cost but good quality super small rig

And I disagree with the omnis in small rooms move. There are usually ALOT of drunks at small venues/bars and are SUPER CHATTY most of the times. Running omnis in that scenario is just going to give you a tape with LOUD chatty cathys but amplified 10x I have run a few diff omni rigs over the years, and Ive NEVER exactly been happy with damn near all of them. 99% of the time I ran omnis, I would have rather run Cards or Hypers But as always, YMMV and EVERYONE has their own opinion! So I would go to archive.org and listen to as many samples as you can, because NOONE can decide for you, and in the end, YOU have to be happy with YOUR rig, because you'll be the one listening to it the most

[hoppedup]

Here are a few of my better tapes in various venue types with both omnis and cards:

CA-14 omnis> CA-9100, 12" split directly in front of 5 piece unamplified: http://archive.org/details/possumjenkins2012-11-04.CA-14.flac24
CA-14 omnis> CA-9100 stealthing outdoors at festival (~80 feet from stage/PA): http://archive.org/details/dalewatson2012-09-15.CA-14omni.flac24
CA-14 omnis> CA-9100 on stage for instrumental band: http://archive.org/details/dqb2012-06-24.CA-14omni.flac24
CA-14 omnis> CA-9100 outdoors running open: https://soundcloud.com/hoppedup/jackmaverick2010-08-2125

CA-14 cards> CA-9100 in a 800 capacity venue: http://archive.org/details/americanaquarium2012-08-25.CA-14.flac24
CA-14 cards> CA-9100 outside at a festival: http://archive.org/details/billybragg2013-09-21.CA-14.flac24
CA-14 cards> CA-9100 in an old movie theater turned music venue: http://archive.org/details/yarn2012-09-29.CA-14.flac24
CA-14 cards> CA-9100 in a 100 seat venue: http://archive.org/details/twodollarpistols2011-05-20.flac16
CA-11 cards> Church Audio ST-20? in a 250 seat venue: http://archive.org/details/nrps2009-08-09

I've never been an arena or stadium guy. You also have John Prine and Emmylou in the original post. You're going to want a pre-amp to tape these kinds of acts. I've had the 9100 for about 4 years and it has performed flawlessly. I wish I had the 9200 for its extra gain because I tape a lot of acoustic and singer-songwriter kinda stuff. You can also use the 9100 pre-amp to attenuate if you are taping really loud shows.

I started with CA-11 cards in 2008 then moved to the CA-14 c&o in 2009 and have been running them ever since. Haven't really felt the upgrade itch. After some trial and error, my preference for stealth is to use omnis and get close to the source.

[andy_landy]

my preference for stealth is to use omnis and get close to the source.

this.

and whoever was hating on the dpa406x earlier - i beg to disagree. they are, in my opinion, a very fine mic indeed. although obviously i'm biased as i have two pairs

[nulldogmas]

my preference for stealth is to use omnis and get close to the source.

this.

Having just done some first-hand comparisons of stealthy omnis and cards (see the "CA-14 vs CSB deathmatch" thread I just started elsewhere on the site), I'm inclined to agree.

[TimeBandit]

my preference for stealth is to use omnis and get close to the source.

this.

+1

[ravingandrooling]

From my limited experience, I have found that when all the conditions are "just right" eg- no talkers, good location, good venue, sound system that I have gotten some fabulous pulls with the 4061's.  On the other hand, I get good to very good pulls from my CA14 cards most of the time even if all conditions are not optimal.  I rarely run my 4061's unless I'm running the cards as a backup at the same time.  I also no longer run a preamp.  To my ears running mic in on the M10 (with battery box) sounds no different than when I ran an external pre. 

[taper666]

"I rarely run my 4061's unless I'm running the cards as a backup at the same time"

wish I had done that, lost some nice shows while using the DPA mics only...

[yates7592]

my preference for stealth is to use omnis and get close to the source.

this.

+1

^