Topic: Photo use ethics?

[runonce]

A question for photographers, maybe -  or webmasters.

I recently made a website for a festival - 5 bands.

For the most part I was able to find useable photos on the bands official websites.

I'm under the assumption that if a photo appears on a bands website - the any person you do business with (like a promoter) should be able to use those materials as part of their promotions.
A photo would be no different than using the bands official logo...no?

In once case, I found a nice picture on a blog - and tracked down the photographer...no problem getting permission, but that's a bit different - a case where you should definitely seek permission.

One band had their image in an "EPK" - so that seems an even safer bet...like "this is the image we want you to use"

How say ye, photo-tapers!???

[ScoobieKW]

Have you contacted the bands' management?

Helping you promote their shows is a part of their responsibility.

[runonce]

Have you contacted the bands' management?

Helping you promote their shows is a part of their responsibility.

I haven't - but obviously the promoter has - as he has the bands booked/contracted.

I'm just building the website - so I'm not too wanting to get involved with the managers.

I think I did ask him to pass on any press kit stuff...but never really got anything.

Another nuance I forgot to mention - at least 1 image I used was a screen cap from a youtube video, that I see popping up in Google Image searches.
I assume this is a Google thing - and yet another grey area...

[runonce]

Usually the band will have promo photos as part of their press kit, which is mostly virtual these days (I imagine EPK = electronic press kit, those images are the ones they want you to use).  Ask their management to be sure.

You'd think, right...?

Only 1 (maybe 2) of 5 had a modern-looking website.

Others looked like they were made for 800X600 screens or just didn't work at all.

[hi and lo]

Right. You work for the promoter, not the bands.

You should be pressing the promoter to supply the necessary creative assets. Your job is to design and build the website, not track down creatives.

[2manyrocks]

This^

Otherwise, you risk some photographer saying, that's my copyrighted photo.....where's my money for using it on your website.

[runonce]

I think what I'm going to do is, have the promoter send a message to all the respective managers and just say, "Here's the website...If I've improperly used any promo materials here - please let us know and/or provide us with the approved materials."

[runonce]

This^

Otherwise, you risk some photographer saying, that's my copyrighted photo.....where's my money for using it on your website.

I guess that's nuance I'm worried about...If I'm a band, and I've paid for a website with pictures or such...I like to think I own the image copyrights and not the photographer. But - that may or may not be...

One image in the EPK - had the photogs brand in the corner....do I have to include that brand even if I crop (i.e. not use that part of) the image?....or resize it to the point of illegibility?

[hi and lo]

I think what I'm going to do is, have the promoter send a message to all the respective managers and just say, "Here's the website...If I've improperly used any promo materials here - please let us know and/or provide us with the approved materials."

Depending how close you are to the project deadline, this might be your only option, but take a moment to think about what might happen and how to craft your message to avoid potential issues.

What kind of feedback do you think they might give and what changes are you willing or not willing to perform? If they tell you the photos need touch-ups (cropping, photoshop, etc), is that work you're willing to perform? If they provide entirely new assets, will you have the time (and budget) in your project to complete the necessary redesigns? What if they begin to criticize design elements other than the photo? What if they don't like the page placement, or the fonts and other branding elements?

This scenario is similar to recording a show where the band wants to preview the recording before public release. It's something I try to avoid as much as possible because you can be subjected to all sorts of unreasonable requests. For example, "My guitar string broke on this song, can you edit it out?"or "That part where we tuned for 5 minutes needs to go before you can post it."

[runonce]

Here's the site...

http://pickingreen.com/

I opened it yesterday so the various parties can take a peek.

If any one here is connected any of with these bands, or I've used something wrongly here - let me know...me fix!

[bombdiggity]

I think what I'm going to do is, have the promoter send a message to all the respective managers and just say, "Here's the website...If I've improperly used any promo materials here - please let us know and/or provide us with the approved materials."

The managers can't vouch for the use of random things (such as YouTube caps/links) gathered from the internet (unless they were the ones that secured the use from the original poster and are supplying that as promotional material).  There is the "who gave the YT uploader permission to post the material on YT in the first place" sort of consideration but if that wasn't approved and the manager actually has something else they want used that's a double faux pas. 

The way it is supposed to work is that the band/management should have at a minimum a press kit and photo (these days that should be an EPK and several images).  If they post material on their website as an EPK or send it out as an EPK then that suffices to indicate they have the rights to use it and can assign those rights to promotional uses like yours (things on their website not explicity noted as for EPK or promotional use may not necessarily be secured for the use of sub-agents - see next post below for more about that). 

Most managers actually want you to use their PK/EPK material rather than anything else.  Some will insist you use those materials only.  The further up the feeding scale you go the stricter it usually is though, as with most things, that's not universal. 

If they don't have an EPK or press/promo photos to send you then unfortunately they're not functioning at a professional level (and should be gently told they need to do that because any promoter needs that material - they should after all be helping not hindering promotion of their appearances). 

Your client/promoter should be tracking the materials down and supplying it, but if they haven't then getting the promoter a form email asking managers for images/content/promotional material/press kit for web development or asking the promoter to engage the contacts they booked the show with about this topic should get you clarity/materials in short order.  Most booking agents will be sure to send it or include the links and any relevant stipulations in the contract for the booking (or immediately following striking a deal).  Some of the smaller ones follow up a little later if they're booking a tour and send a mass mailer out to all the venues with a poster, photo, blurb specific to the tour... 

Nice site BTW. 

[guitard]

I'm under the assumption that if a photo appears on a band's website - then any person you do business with (like a promoter) should be able to use those materials as part of their promotions.  A photo would be no different than using the bands official logo...no?

If the arrangement by which the photos were taken was "works made for hire," than someone other than the photographer (probably the band or the band's management) would have the copyrights for the images - and can do whatever they want with the images.  However, it's not unheard of for a photographer to agree to let a band use the photographer's images (and there's usually an agreement about how the images may be used) - but the photographer still retains full copyright ownership.  And in a case like the one you have - you would have to get the photographer's permission to use the photos (and that might mean - you have to pay him).

Some things are never easy ...

[acidjack]

The best thing is always to ask/provide a photo credit. In the case of materials on their website, I'd consider it part of their press materials and would feel OK using it, though I would still replicate whatever photo credit was listed and/or credit where the photo came from as "courtesy of [band]"

In a pinch I have used stuff from a band's Facebook page, again on the theory that someone posting that stuff there has already released those rights. Still, it is good to provide credit where due.

[2manyrocks]

Nice website.  Loads up quick. 

Running down who has the rights to a photo I think you've just about got to check with the band, and even they might not have a handle on it.

I suppose you could have a contract that says they will provide you with the photos they want and they represent to you that they have the requisite rights to be able to allow you to use the photo.   

   

[earmonger]

Anything in an EPK or on a band's website is promotional material for you to use, completely clear.

Anything people have uploaded to Facebook (public pages), Flickr, Tumblr, etc. is there for the taking through the EULAs of those sites--and if a photographer comes after you for $$ you are firmly grounded in saying it was uploaded for public use. It would be a courtesy to credit the photographer, and you should probably do that, because...why not?

Screen grabs of Youtube videos, not so much. Youtube gets away with crazy things because the muscle of Google is behind it. Using those as a smaller business could be a PITA.

All bands should provide something usable to the promoter. They're inept if they don't.