Topic: CA11 & STC-9000 : Some questions and tips

[Andrea82]

Hello to all the community here 

I have an Edirol R09HR and and recently I own also the stc-9000 pre-amp and the ca-11 mics from Church Audio.

I will use this configuration for the first time in july for Mark Knopfler, an outdoor concert.

Now, the settings for the R09 are ok, i have only some question about the preamp. He has 3 level for the gain range (0, +10, +30) and i don't know what is better for a concert.

Then a strange things...the ca-11 mics are cardioids or omnis? 
If i hook them in my shirt is enough?

Thanks to you all

Greetings from Italy

Andrea

[fmaderjr]

CA-11's can come with either omni or cardiod caps:
The easy way to tell is look at the side of the capsule there are holes with mesh screen covering them if they are cardioid. If they are omni they have no holes in the sides whatsoever.

For moderately loud to loud concerts the St-9000 should be set at +10 with the volume control turned all the way up. Occasionally 0 may be best for very very loud stuff. The HR, as you probably know, should be set around 38 (unity gain) unless you need a little more gain than the ST-9000 can provide.

If your mics are cardiod they should be pointed appropriately at the sound source. You won't get a good stereo image if randomly clipped to your shirt. (I mount mine inside the liner of a Kangol hat and keep my head from moving from side to side). If omni, the direction they point at isn't as critical, but you would get better stereo image if you can mount them using your head as a baffle.

[Church-Audio]

Hello to all the community here 

I have an Edirol R09HR and and recently I own also the stc-9000 pre-amp and the ca-11 mics from Church Audio.

I will use this configuration for the first time in july for Mark Knopfler, an outdoor concert.

Now, the settings for the R09 are ok, i have only some question about the preamp. He has 3 level for the gain range (0, +10, +30) and i don't know what is better for a concert.

Then a strange things...the ca-11 mics are cardioids or omnis? 
If i hook them in my shirt is enough?

Thanks to you all

Greetings from Italy

Andrea

+30 Is for quiet sources around 80 to 102db ( this might not mean much to you )
+10 is for loud sources around 99 to 115 db
0 db is for REALLY loud sources around 109 to 124 db
The volume control on the 9000 should be at max unless you are using a camera input then you can attenuate to taste.

The high pass filter should be flat.

The mics must be as high up as possible, the higher the better and pointed at the sound source. We suggest a hat or eye glasses with your hair over top of the mics.

Chris

[heyitsmejess]

The volume control on the 9000 should be at max unless you are using a camera input then you can attenuate to taste.

The high pass filter should be flat.

The mics must be as high up as possible, the higher the better and pointed at the sound source. We suggest a hat or eye glasses with your hair over top of the mics.

Chris

thats how i have always done it...crank the preamp all the way, and control the level on the recorder.
(i have to say, i have had some people get down right upset at me for saying that)

[vanark]

thats how i have always done it...crank the preamp all the way, and control the level on the recorder.
(i have to say, i have had some people get down right upset at me for saying that)

On the 9000?  Yes, that is the way to run.  On the 9100?  Not so much (at least in my opinion).  For the 9100, unity on the recorder and control the volume on the 9100 is how I've been told to do it (and have done it).  Prior to getting the 9100, I had a 9000 and I ran it as you and Chris suggested.

[Andrea82]

Thanks for all the useful comments. 

Now, i have the latest two pair of questions, and for a optimal understand I have attached a photo with some explain requested.

Here the link (yes, i have the 1st and only italian site about EC  )

http://www.ericclapton.it/ca-11.jpg

Thank you so much again

[fmaderjr]

Yes to all your questions except that cards don't record just the sound that is in front of them. They will record some crowd chatter/noise behind them but it will be attenuated (as opposed to omnis that basically record sounds in front of them and behind them at the same level).

Use the windscreens since recording outdoors, but if moderately windy I wouldn't expect them to help too much. I haven't had much luck with cheap foam windscreens. You really need to cover the windscreens with one of those furry windjammer type things to cut down wind noise noticeably.

[Andrea82]

Yes to all your questions except that cards don't record just the sound that is in front of them. They will record some crowd chatter/noise behind them but it will be attenuated (as opposed to omnis that basically record sounds in front of them and behind them at the same level).

Use the windscreens since recording outdoors, but if it moderately windy I wouldn't expect them to help too much. I haven't had much luck with cheap foam windscreens. You really need to cover the windscreens with one of those furry windjammer type things to cut down wind noise noticeably.

You're very kind, now the situation is more clear :-)

[MSTaper]

I haven't recorded with my CA-11 > STC-9000 > R-09 rig in a while and used it last night at an outdoor show (my son took the Avantone CK-1 > Fostex FR-2LE rig to Bonnaroo) and I have forgotten what the "unity gain" was on the R-09. I thought it was 15 or 16 and I think I ran it at 16. I was about 30' from the stage, DFC/FOB. It was fairly loud, but to get decent levels without adjusting the input on the R-09, I had to switch the STC-9000 gain to +30. At +10 it just looked too low.

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?

Still happy this little rig will get nice recordings when I need it.

MSTaper

[Andrea82]

I haven't recorded with my CA-11 > STC-9000 > R-09 rig in a while and used it last night at an outdoor show (my son took the Avantone CK-1 > Fostex FR-2LE rig to Bonnaroo) and I have forgotten what the "unity gain" was on the R-09. I thought it was 15 or 16 and I think I ran it at 16. I was about 30' from the stage, DFC/FOB. It was fairly loud, but to get decent levels without adjusting the input on the R-09, I had to switch the STC-9000 gain to +30. At +10 it just looked too low.

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?

Still happy this little rig will get nice recordings when I need it.

MSTaper

Thank you for your experience !

[fmaderjr]

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?
MSTaper

The ST-9100 is going to provide cleaner gain than the R-09, so if you can set it at +30 with the R-09 at unity gain without your meters going over 0 dB, that's the way to go. There was much argument here about the R-09's unity gain, but I believe the general consensus was that it is 13. You definitely wouldn't want the ST-9000 at +30 if you had to set the R-09 below 13 to keep the meters from going over 0 dB. Then you might be getting distortion (the ST-9000 itself might be overloading).

[heyitsmejess]

On the 9000?  Yes, that is the way to run.  On the 9100?  Not so much (at least in my opinion).  For the 9100, unity on the recorder and control the volume on the 9100 is how I've been told to do it (and have done it).  Prior to getting the 9100, I had a 9000 and I ran it as you and Chris suggested.

the 9100 has 10db less gain than the 9000.
the 9100 is supposed to be "cleaner" gain than the previous models.
what would the difference be?

not trying to argue, just trying to get your take on it.

[vanark]

The 9000 is fixed gain and the 9100 is variable gain.  So, if you are going to add 10 dB, you might as well add it and then adjust it on the recorder.  Adjusting the knob on the 9000 only attenuates the output - the gain has already been added to the signal.  On the 9000 I would only use the +30dB at an acoustic show since that is a heck of a lot of gain to be adding, so while it does have 10 more dB than the 9100, the 9100's is variable and I can add just what I need and no more.

[Church-Audio]

I am going to be making a 9000II it will have gain from 0 db or unity to +35 db in 6 steps so you can adjust it the way you need it, It will also have a output level control so it will work as an attenuator for video cameras. The cost will be $179 because its got more "parts" in it. The opamps will be the same as the 9100. And it will output a 9 volt dc for plug in power. I will have the first one available next week for sale.

Chris

[MSTaper]

Cool, Chris. Will you be offering a trade-in for those of us with the old 9k?

MSTaper