Topic: Home Theater Forums?

[pjdavep]

well, the main question i'm interested in right now is whether to stick with my sony ns90v upconverting dvd player or go with another upconverting dvd player, or just go with a high-end non-upconverting player (and thus allowing the pioneer to do the scaling).  I'm not going to go with the Oppo upconverting player if i do go with a different upconverting player, because of the possibility of macroblocking with the Faroudja chipset (in the 971 model).  I may go with a non upconverting Arcam dvd player or some other high-end player.  I've read (on avsforum) of people having very nice results with such a set up, but haven't seen any specific input on an arcam/pio combo.  i may have to do a better search...

How about the Oppo 970 with the Mediatek chip?  Does your current Sony player have the ability to pass a 480i signal?

I've heard good things about the Pio Elite's de-interlacing/scaling, so a higher end player may be money wasted.

Later,
  pjdavep

[dmonterisi]

well, the main question i'm interested in right now is whether to stick with my sony ns90v upconverting dvd player or go with another upconverting dvd player, or just go with a high-end non-upconverting player (and thus allowing the pioneer to do the scaling).  I'm not going to go with the Oppo upconverting player if i do go with a different upconverting player, because of the possibility of macroblocking with the Faroudja chipset (in the 971 model).  I may go with a non upconverting Arcam dvd player or some other high-end player.  I've read (on avsforum) of people having very nice results with such a set up, but haven't seen any specific input on an arcam/pio combo.  i may have to do a better search...

How about the Oppo 970 with the Mediatek chip?  Does your current Sony player have the ability to pass a 480i signal?

I've heard good things about the Pio Elite's de-interlacing/scaling, so a higher end player may be money wasted.

Later,
  pjdavep

it cannot pass 480i over hdmi, but can over component, i believe.  so i'll hook up both outputs via 1080i and 480i and see what looks best.

the de-interlacing and scaling of the Pio is one of the reasons i went with the upgrade.  and is also why i'm considering going with a high-end 480i player.  the better the 480i picture quality, the better it should look when scaled by the pio...well, in theory at least.  trying to figure out if that's the best way to get the best PQ from SD DVD's or by a better upconverting player.

[pjdavep]

it cannot pass 480i over hdmi, but can over component, i believe.  so i'll hook up both outputs via 1080i and 480i and see what looks best.

the de-interlacing and scaling of the Pio is one of the reasons i went with the upgrade.  and is also why i'm considering going with a high-end 480i player.  the better the 480i picture quality, the better it should look when scaled by the pio...well, in theory at least.  trying to figure out if that's the best way to get the best PQ from SD DVD's or by a better upconverting player.

Have you looked at the possibilty of an outboard scaler/processor?  I was looking at getting the DVDO VP30, but happened across a great deal on a Key Digital iSync Pro advertised on one of the AVS forum's "power buys".  I just got it the other day and am awaiting a cable and a chunk of free time to hook it up and test it out.  I'm hoping that it will improve the quality of my SD TV and DVD image.  The processor made sense for me because I have a lower end plasma (Vizio P50), which has limited color tweaking and it improperly streches higher resolutions vertically.

For pure 480i video, you can get an SDI modded DVD player, but I'm pretty sure that you can't get any TV with an SDI input and that you'd need an outboard scaler 
http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=dvdplayers&page=title&title=327

Later,
  pjdavep

[scervin]

it cannot pass 480i over hdmi, but can over component, i believe.  so i'll hook up both outputs via 1080i and 480i and see what looks best.

the de-interlacing and scaling of the Pio is one of the reasons i went with the upgrade.  and is also why i'm considering going with a high-end 480i player.  the better the 480i picture quality, the better it should look when scaled by the pio...well, in theory at least.  trying to figure out if that's the best way to get the best PQ from SD DVD's or by a better upconverting player.

Have you looked at the possibilty of an outboard scaler/processor?  I was looking at getting the DVDO VP30, but happened across a great deal on a Key Digital iSync Pro advertised on one of the AVS forum's "power buys".  I just got it the other day and am awaiting a cable and a chunk of free time to hook it up and test it out.  I'm hoping that it will improve the quality of my SD TV and DVD image.  The processor made sense for me because I have a lower end plasma (Vizio P50), which has limited color tweaking and it improperly streches higher resolutions vertically.

For pure 480i video, you can get an SDI modded DVD player, but I'm pretty sure that you can't get any TV with an SDI input and that you'd need an outboard scaler 
http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=dvdplayers&page=title&title=327

Later,
  pjdavep

480i via SDI would be the way to go, but then you need an SDI Iscan.  Right there you are pushing $1500+.  I've often thought of getting the SDI mod for my SP1000, but then I wonder if I end up getting the Anthem D2 or AVM-50 when they offer HDMI 1.3 if I would prefer the scaler in the Anthem.

Anyway, the Oppo 970 does 480i over HDMI and is "supposed" to be one of the best.  A lot of folks are having good luck with the new Denon's running 480P.  I would try a few players in your budget and try them all.  I couldn't stand the macroblocking on the 3910 so ended up with the Onkyo.  I'm thinking about trying the new 3930ci or 2930 with an outboard DAC for CD's.  I do know this, I will have too much time on my hands in the next few weeks to think about all this.

SC

[dmonterisi]

Have you looked at the possibilty of an outboard scaler/processor?  I was looking at getting the DVDO VP30, but happened across a great deal on a Key Digital iSync Pro advertised on one of the AVS forum's "power buys".  I just got it the other day and am awaiting a cable and a chunk of free time to hook it up and test it out.  I'm hoping that it will improve the quality of my SD TV and DVD image.  The processor made sense for me because I have a lower end plasma (Vizio P50), which has limited color tweaking and it improperly streches higher resolutions vertically.

For pure 480i video, you can get an SDI modded DVD player, but I'm pretty sure that you can't get any TV with an SDI input and that you'd need an outboard scaler 
http://www.jvbdigital.com/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=dvdplayers&page=title&title=327

Later,
  pjdavep

not going to do an outboard scaler, though I'm sure that would be superior.  spent too much on this TV, can't add the scaler right now.  I assume the Vizio does 1:1 pixel mapping?

Anyway, the Oppo 970 does 480i over HDMI and is "supposed" to be one of the best.  A lot of folks are having good luck with the new Denon's running 480P.  I would try a few players in your budget and try them all.  I couldn't stand the macroblocking on the 3910 so ended up with the Onkyo.  I'm thinking about trying the new 3930ci or 2930 with an outboard DAC for CD's.  I do know this, I will have too much time on my hands in the next few weeks to think about all this.

SC

i haven't used the Oppo myself, but I think i'm going to stay away from it, mainly because of build quality.  i'm probably going to post this question on avsforum and see what happens.

480i via SDI would be the way to go, but then you need an SDI Iscan.  Right there you are pushing $1500+.  I've often thought of getting the SDI mod for my SP1000, but then I wonder if I end up getting the Anthem D2 or AVM-50 when they offer HDMI 1.3 if I would prefer the scaler in the Anthem.

my arcam does HDMI switching, but does not extract audio from HDMI and does not upconvert.  It's basically a convenience.  I think when the Pio arrives, I'm going to abandon using it as an hdmi switching box because I feel that the optimal picture settings for SD DVD playback are different from those of HDTV as the colorspaces are different.  I infer from your comment that the Anthem upconverts SD and scales to your tv's native resolution...if you were to go with the Anthem, would you have similar colorspace issues, or does the fact that the anthem is upconverting solve those colorspace issues?

[scervin]

Just read through the 3930 thread looking for Kris Deering's comments.  He mentioned the scaler in the 3930 is better than that Anthem uses.  Guess that solves that problem.

Right now I have my DVD plyer doing the upconverting to 720P to run native to the projector.  I then have my HD box send the native signal and let the Infocus scale to 720P.  Each input is calibrated differently.  I don't believe I will ever use a switcher for the exact reasons you mentioned.  There are very different settings for DVD and HD.

[heath]

which model is that?  got a link?

not really sure. it seems that you can get flat LCD's or rear projection? I know i don't like the rear projection.

yeah, i had the 50" SXRD, which is a rear projection model, similar to the rear-projection LCD's.  I personally would avoid these and with other technologies falling in price, i would go with the flat panel.  one piece of advice i would give is not to get caught in the hype of 1080p resolution...not only will it be a while before 1080p sources are readily available (if ever)...but it will absolutely reveal the flaws in SD programming and your SD DVD's. 

i don't know that sony has a 50" flat panel LCD.  they have a 46" and a 52".  the 52 lists at $6500, i believe.  the 46 lists at $3800 and you could probably get it in the $3300 range.  what's your budget??  (the key question around here i know).  PM me or give me a call this week.

just curious about your doubts on the speed of 1080p availability.  With PS3's starting to get into the market, you suddenly have a pretty reasonable Blu-ray player (and a sweet gaming system).  TV will get there...at least the sports will.  This I know for a fact as our trucks already are 100% 1080p enabled.  It's the limitations of the networks and cable infrastructure that are holding up airing as far as I had heard.  Hopefully they can get things rolling sooner than later!!!

[dmonterisi]

just curious about your doubts on the speed of 1080p availability.  With PS3's starting to get into the market, you suddenly have a pretty reasonable Blu-ray player (and a sweet gaming system).  TV will get there...at least the sports will.  This I know for a fact as our trucks already are 100% 1080p enabled.  It's the limitations of the networks and cable infrastructure that are holding up airing as far as I had heard.  Hopefully they can get things rolling sooner than later!!!

I have 2 reasons to doubt a speedy move to 1080p.  first of all, like you said the bandwidth limitations of cable and satellite are a big deal.  these feeds are apparently already heavily compressed and with cable operators adding voice services to already-existed high volume internet services, I don't think there is enough a difference in PQ for the average consumer that the cable companies will allocate that much more bandwidth.  1080i and 720p look great for the most part...and 1080p requires double the bandwidth.  there just will not be the incentive to switch to 1080p because the average consumer won't notice the difference. 

second, and somewhat related to the first, is it's got to be driven by sales of dvd's.  I think just like regular cd v. dvd-a or sacd, I just don't think most people will care.  I think the enhanced resolution of HD-DVD or blu-ray will not be a big enough difference to appeal to the average consumer.  i think it will stay a niche market. 

[pjdavep]

not going to do an outboard scaler, though I'm sure that would be superior.  spent too much on this TV, can't add the scaler right now.  I assume the Vizio does 1:1 pixel mapping?

The Vizio can do 1:1 mapping via the RGB port, but it's a 1366x768 panel, so everything is scaled if you are using component or HDMI.  I plan on trying the RGB output of the outboard scaler first, although I'm a little hesitant because it has been reported that you can't pass blacker-than-black using the RGB port.

I don't think you ever mentioned which Pioneer you got.  Is it that FD-1 (or something like that) that is a native 1080p panel?

Later,
   pjdavep.

[dmonterisi]

i got the 1140.  it's 1365x768. 

the Pro-FHD1 is their 50" 1080p plasma...along with it's $8k price tag...

[scb]

if you can find an arcam dv27 or 27a for cheap, it's a sweet player, even though it's component out only.  i have *no* complaints from this thing at all. 

i've seen good comments on the 27...what's the difference in the 27 v. 27a.  i'm not too worried about component only, that wouldn't be a hang-up for me.

27a does dvd-audio.  regular 27 doesn't

[John Kelly]

which model is that?  got a link?

not really sure. it seems that you can get flat LCD's or rear projection? I know i don't like the rear projection.

yeah, i had the 50" SXRD, which is a rear projection model, similar to the rear-projection LCD's.  I personally would avoid these and with other technologies falling in price, i would go with the flat panel.  one piece of advice i would give is not to get caught in the hype of 1080p resolution...not only will it be a while before 1080p sources are readily available (if ever)...but it will absolutely reveal the flaws in SD programming and your SD DVD's. 

i don't know that sony has a 50" flat panel LCD.  they have a 46" and a 52".  the 52 lists at $6500, i believe.  the 46 lists at $3800 and you could probably get it in the $3300 range.  what's your budget??  (the key question around here i know).  PM me or give me a call this week.

just curious about your doubts on the speed of 1080p availability.  With PS3's starting to get into the market, you suddenly have a pretty reasonable Blu-ray player (and a sweet gaming system).  TV will get there...at least the sports will.  This I know for a fact as our trucks already are 100% 1080p enabled.  It's the limitations of the networks and cable infrastructure that are holding up airing as far as I had heard.  Hopefully they can get things rolling sooner than later!!!

1080p only makes a difference if you're sitting 2 feet from your tv or if you have a 60"+ tv.  There are limitations to human eyesight.

[nickgregory]

it makes a difference with sports.  1080i gets macro blocked with fast action, which is why most sports is broadcast in 720p...

[dmonterisi]

it makes a difference with sports.  1080i gets macro blocked with fast action, which is why most sports is broadcast in 720p...

not exactly true...it's a network by network thing.  fox, abc and espn broadcast in 720p.  the other networks use 1080i.

1080i doesn't always exhibit macroblocking, it just depends on the quality of the de-interlacer in the TV.

[nickgregory]

it makes a difference with sports.  1080i gets macro blocked with fast action, which is why most sports is broadcast in 720p...

not exactly true...it's a network by network thing.  fox, abc and espn broadcast in 720p.  the other networks use 1080i.

1080i doesn't always exhibit macroblocking, it just depends on the quality of the de-interlacer in the TV.

good point i was looking strictly at my personal experience.  For the olympics, NBC did 1080i and the diving events were painful to watch as a result...but your right...only based on my set/experience