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Author Topic: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp  (Read 6806 times)

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Offline chris

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Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« on: May 17, 2006, 06:06:25 PM »
Hey,

I finally found a 901 recently (for a good price), and using the unit as a standalone DAC in my hi-fi.  Either way, I was thinking of running the unit as a preamp in the system as well.  I've found (to my surprise) that this little toy can handle a variety of inputs (analog and digi).

I was just curious if anyone else had any thoughts regarding using a headphone preamp for hi-fi playback.  For what it's worth, I decided that the analog inputs helps the signal from my SACD player.  I'm very curious how this will sound if I run my TT through it.



Thanks,
Chris E.
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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2006, 07:14:12 PM »
Hey,

I finally found a 901 recently (for a good price), and using the unit as a standalone DAC in my hi-fi.  Either way, I was thinking of running the unit as a preamp in the system as well.  I've found (to my surprise) that this little toy can handle a variety of inputs (analog and digi).

I was just curious if anyone else had any thoughts regarding using a headphone preamp for hi-fi playback.  For what it's worth, I decided that the analog inputs helps the signal from my SACD player.  I'm very curious how this will sound if I run my TT through it.

Thanks,
Chris E.

Jason Sobel's setup: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=39602.msg509697#msg509697

My m902 is my DAC/pre, picked up for the exact purpose.  I couldn't be happier, plus it takes up minimal space.  I needed a pre and my DAC could only accommodate 1 source AND I really wanted a nice headphone amp. It has an input for everything that I want in my playback, I couldn't do that for even close to the same price.

 
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 09:31:19 PM »
indeed, the 901 works very well as a pre-amp.  in fact, so many people were using it this way, that Grace added RCA outputs to the m902, to make it easier for people to use as a pre-amp.  that's the only "downside" of the 901, that the only outputs are 1/4" jacks, so you need a custom cable for 1/4" > RCA connectors.  a while back, I had leegeddy make me a nice custom silver cable that I've been using.

as linked in that playback phot thread, that's my 901 > grado rs-2 headphones.  since that thread, I've gone through a couple of amps, and I now have the 901 matched with a pair of Channel Islands Audio VMB-1 monoblocks as my amp.  it's fantastic, go for it. :)

 - Jason

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 09:45:29 PM »
Thanks guys for the input.  I pulled my AE-3 modded preamp from the chain and have the 901 running straight to my zen.  Sounds real nice.  I'm planning to look under the hood of the 901 to check out the goods on the preamp section.

So far, real impressed.  I assume that all the inputs work simultaneously.  Again, I'm thinking of running my TT throught the rca inputs and the SACD signal through the balanced inputs.  On the digi side, run the redbook (toslink) and 24bit signal from my Dell (coax).

This should be interesting.

Again thanks for the response.

C Evans

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 01:16:07 AM »
So far, real impressed.  I assume that all the inputs work simultaneously.  Again, I'm thinking of running my TT throught the rca inputs and the SACD signal through the balanced inputs.  On the digi side, run the redbook (toslink) and 24bit signal from my Dell (coax).

This should be interesting.

Again thanks for the response.

C Evans


Does your TT have a built in preamp?
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
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Offline pjdavep

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 10:15:34 AM »
So far, real impressed.  I assume that all the inputs work simultaneously.  Again, I'm thinking of running my TT throught the rca inputs and the SACD signal through the balanced inputs.  On the digi side, run the redbook (toslink) and 24bit signal from my Dell (coax).

Chris,

Unfortunately, this is not the case.  I am not sure about the toslink and coax inputs working simultaneously, but if the balanced inputs are plugged in, then that is what the 901 tries to pull a signal from.  I use my 901 at work and have the SACD feeding into the RCA inputs, while my computer is hooked into the XLRs.  I have to unplug the XLRs whenever I wanted to listen to an SACD.

Apparently the m902 got around this by providing an input selector on the front.

Later,
  pjdavep
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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 10:27:38 AM »
So far, real impressed.  I assume that all the inputs work simultaneously.  Again, I'm thinking of running my TT throught the rca inputs and the SACD signal through the balanced inputs.  On the digi side, run the redbook (toslink) and 24bit signal from my Dell (coax).

Chris,

Unfortunately, this is not the case.  I am not sure about the toslink and coax inputs working simultaneously, but if the balanced inputs are plugged in, then that is what the 901 tries to pull a signal from.  I use my 901 at work and have the SACD feeding into the RCA inputs, while my computer is hooked into the XLRs.  I have to unplug the XLRs whenever I wanted to listen to an SACD.

Apparently the m902 got around this by providing an input selector on the front.

Later,
  pjdavep

you can have both the optical and the coax S/PDIF connected at the same time.  if both are sending a signal, it'll choose the optical signal.  to get it to read the coax digi signal, you just need to turn off the player sending optical signal, but no need to unplug the connector...

if both the coax S/PDIF and the optical are connected, the preference goes to the optical connector, if there is a signal.  I used to have my CD player hooked up into the optical, and my DVD player going into the Coax.  but I didn't have to unplug the optical to get the coax input to work, I just

Offline chris

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 10:35:45 AM »
Okay, thanks for the clarification.  I knew it was too good to be true regarding the inputs.  I may have to come up w/a splitter or something for the rca inputs (to handle 2 sources).  It's strange that unit locks in on balanced input and does on any other input.  I wonder if this happens if there is NO signal coming into that input.  Maybe you've already answered this......

Also, I'm having Don Garber build me his FI yph phono stage.  It's going to take another 12 weeks.........and I just sold my other phono stage.  Oh well, no LP listening for awhile. Although, digital is sounding better than ever.



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Offline pjdavep

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2006, 12:25:24 PM »
Okay, thanks for the clarification.  I knew it was too good to be true regarding the inputs.  I may have to come up w/a splitter or something for the rca inputs (to handle 2 sources).  It's strange that unit locks in on balanced input and does on any other input.  I wonder if this happens if there is NO signal coming into that input.  Maybe you've already answered this......

I just checked this, and apparently if you simply have the XLRs plugged in (with nothing plugged in at the source), you can still use the RCAs.  When I plug the miniplug end into my computer soundcard, that is when the 901 will not use the RCA input.  That's good to know that the optical can be used simultaneously so long as it's not getting an active signal.

Later,
   pjdavep
Recording: DPA 4061s > DPA MMA-6000 > R-09

Playback office: Denon 2200 > Grace 901 > Sennheiser 650's (all Cardas cabling)
            home: Onkyo SP-800 > Denon 887 > Odyssey HT-3 SE > Von Schweikert VR-2  (Kimber Select IC's and Bifocal XL spkr cables)

Offline chris

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 12:48:27 PM »
Agreed.  I just recieved an update from Grace.  As mentioned before, it looks like Grace has solved the issue w/the 902. 

"Thanks for your email and we are glad to hear that you are enjoying the model 901.  There is no internal solution for routing multiple analog inputs into the model 901.  The input amplifier stage is shared between the balanced and unbalanced connectors.  This is something that the m902 addresses.  It allows you to have all inputs (analog and digital) connected simultaneously with front panel selection of the monitor source.

For your application I would recommend an external switching box.  This will allow you to select between multiple inputs.  A few options include the Manley Slipjack http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/skipjack.html and the Coleman Audio MS6 http://www.colemanaudio.com/
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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 04:57:28 PM »

For your application I would recommend an external switching box.  This will allow you to select between multiple inputs.  A few options include the Manley Slipjack http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/skipjack.html and the Coleman Audio MS6 http://www.colemanaudio.com/

You can also get a switchbox from radio shack that I am guessing will be cheaper than the above options. I have a video switchbox from there that I use, just feeding the audio inputs.

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2006, 05:32:36 PM »

For your application I would recommend an external switching box.  This will allow you to select between multiple inputs.  A few options include the Manley Slipjack http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/skipjack.html and the Coleman Audio MS6 http://www.colemanaudio.com/

You can also get a switchbox from radio shack that I am guessing will be cheaper than the above options. I have a video switchbox from there that I use, just feeding the audio inputs.



yah but ive tried the rat shack and similar boxes- they are noisy as hell.
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Offline chris

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2006, 05:44:57 PM »
The added noise was my fear as well.  Decware makes a nice rotary box.....a high quality, low profile box is hard to come by!

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 05:54:16 PM »
The added noise was my fear as well.  Decware makes a nice rotary box.....a high quality, low profile box is hard to come by!



ive never heard the manley labs box but if its built the same way their other gear is then it's gonna be amazing.
Quote from: Todd Snider
They say 3 percent of the people use 5 to 6 percent of their brain
97 percent use 3 percent and the rest goes down the drain
I'll never know which one I am but I'll bet you my last dime
99 percent think with 3 percent 100 percent of the time

Offline chris

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2006, 05:56:15 PM »
I'm sure it's nice but it's also $800 or so.  For a switch box??????


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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2006, 07:25:23 PM »
I'm sure it's nice but it's also $800 or so.  For a switch box??????




make something with top quality components its going to be expensive.
Quote from: Todd Snider
They say 3 percent of the people use 5 to 6 percent of their brain
97 percent use 3 percent and the rest goes down the drain
I'll never know which one I am but I'll bet you my last dime
99 percent think with 3 percent 100 percent of the time

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2006, 07:35:34 AM »
you may want to seek an rf coax switchbox.
It won't be noisy and would be constant impedance.
likely not to be stereo, so you'd need one for each channel or you'd have to make your own.

The Decware probaly would be the way to go, most of their stuff is a solid value
http://www.decware.com/

BTW, what's with the chick on their website ?
Did Steve Deckert do a Wendy/Walter Carlos thing ?  Or is he just smitten ?


About $120:


Offline halteh

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2006, 04:45:12 PM »
All this talk of inputs got me thinking. I'm currently using my m902 as a headphone amp for my computer (via spdif) and my digital cable box on my tv (via optical toslink) -no speakers or amp yet means tv with headphones  :(. Anyways, I'm looking into getting an SACD/DVD player for my setup when i eventually do pickup some speakers and an amp; what would be my best bet for inputs in this situation? I think the spif and optical inputs on the m902 make up the only 2 digital inputs (unless the AES input is digital, i have no idea about that) and I'd really like to have the tv, computer, and dvd player going digial into the m902. Any ideas? Is the AES3 input digital? If so, how can i get from spdif or toslink to AES3? do I need a special converter box? Is this going to cost a small fortune? Or am I just better off using the unbalanced inputs for either the computer, dvd player or television?

Thanks
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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2006, 05:25:22 PM »
If so, how can i get from spdif or toslink to AES3? do I need a special converter box? Is this going to cost a small fortune? Or am I just better off using the unbalanced inputs for either the computer, dvd player or television?

Thanks
--Fares
 


Might work going spdif>AES using just an adaptor cable.

I am surprised your digital TV cable box spits out a digital signal that the 902 can see, I am just curious, what bit depth/sampling rate is it showing up as?

I would guess another option would be to use a digital switchbox of some kind, not sure about what is out there but I am sure there is something that will work.

However, if you plan on playing SACD's out of your future player you will need to run analog to the 902. Possibly the same for video DVD's as I would guess that the 902 will not recognize a digital video datastream. In this case seems analog out seems like your best bet.



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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2006, 05:35:06 PM »
indeed, AES is another digital format.  while AES > S/PDIF will usually work without a special converter box, I doubt it'd work the other way around.  That's because the voltage for an AES signal is ~5V, while the voltage for an S/PDIF signal is 0.5V.  So if you send an S/PDIF signal into something that is expecting an AES signal, it won't be able to read it because the voltage is too low.

The Hosa CDL-313 will convert a coax S/PDIF stream to AES.
the Hosa ODL-312 will convert an optical S/PDIF to AES.

one of those boxes isn't too much and might be useful for you.

Offline halteh

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Re: Using the Grace 901 as a hi-fi preamp
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2006, 07:04:46 PM »
If so, how can i get from spdif or toslink to AES3? do I need a special converter box? Is this going to cost a small fortune? Or am I just better off using the unbalanced inputs for either the computer, dvd player or television?

Thanks
--Fares
 


Might work going spdif>AES using just an adaptor cable.

I am surprised your digital TV cable box spits out a digital signal that the 902 can see, I am just curious, what bit depth/sampling rate is it showing up as?

Yup, it shows up as a 48k stream. My PVR HD box has 3 options for digital audio out: Dolby, HDMI, or Other. When I put it on Dolby the m902 just spits out a digital clipping noise (ac3 processing?), HDMI obviously doesn't apply here, and the other spits out a 48k stereo stream. Seems to be working nicely.

Quote
I would guess another option would be to use a digital switchbox of some kind, not sure about what is out there but I am sure there is something that will work.

However, if you plan on playing SACD's out of your future player you will need to run analog to the 902. Possibly the same for video DVD's as I would guess that the 902 will not recognize a digital video datastream. In this case seems analog out seems like your best bet.

Well that makes everything a lot easier :) guess it will be toslink from the PVR, spdif from the computer and dual RCA from the dvd/sacd player :)

Thanks

 

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