Topic: Pre (choices) HELP

[BJ]

ok...here is where i need thoughts/help ideas, whatever...the upgrade bug has bitten, and it looks like i finally sold my mics and almost the whole rig...so..next 4 me is???

I have a lil extra cash coming my way...looking for a new pre I basically have three choices, all with ups/downs

I plan on upgrading my mics ( i htink to km184's) and i have 4061's for stealth
I could keep the ps2 for stealth, and just go the V3 route, or I could get one of the other two pre's and get a sbm1(or use the a/d in the microtracker) for about hte same price and move the ps-2

V3 - we all know its a great pre/ad but not really stealthable ( tons of stuff on archive and it sounds great)
sonosax SX-M2 - nice pre and stealthable ( a few on archive..sounds great)
SD MP-2(or variants) i think my least favorite right now (but i havent heard the Aerco with the km184s
Aerco Mp-2 again, nice pre and stealthable (none on archive) {i did find a few with scheops and MG's..but no neumanns or dpa's  )
UA-5 T+ mod...sorry, forgot to post this one on the poll....

thanx

[Nick Graham]

I can hook you up with some Neumann>Aerco shows. Drop me a PM (may not be able to respond until tomorrow....)

[BJ]

I can hook you up with some Neumann>Aerco shows. Drop me a PM (may not be able to respond until tomorrow....)

+t thanx!  pm sent

[jeromejello]

i voted v3... i think the other pre's might be too warm for the 184s.

i would really vote ua-5 t+ mod b/c that way you arent dumping more money in the the pre than the mics... i think that the v3 will show the limitations on the 184's quicker... and then you have to buy new mics too.. 

i know nothing

[jeromejello]

oh yeah, congrats on finally moving those audix... 

i think they are great mics... you would think it was leposry or something with how long it took to unload.

[BJ]

i voted v3... i think the other pre's might be too warm for the 184s.

i would really vote ua-5 t+ mod b/c that way you arent dumping more money in the the pre than the mics... i think that the v3 will show the limitations on the 184's quicker... and then you have to buy new mics too.. 

i know nothing

arent the 184's and 140's about the same sonically?  maybe its just my playback (which i should probably be upgrading instead)..but other than the switchable caps and actives, i don't here a whole lot of difference.  i know the v3 is superb..but it is actually alot more money than the other choices...sx and aerco for ~700, v3 for 1100$, thats a MT's difference...d'oh..decisions decisions

i see alot of voting...and only one opinion posted...post plz!! 

[RebelRebel]

i voted v3... i think the other pre's might be too warm for the 184s.

i would really vote ua-5 t+ mod b/c that way you arent dumping more money in the the pre than the mics... i think that the v3 will show the limitations on the 184's quicker... and then you have to buy new mics too.. 

i know nothing

arent the 184's and 140's about the same sonically? 

Yessir  . the 140 is exactly the same capsule and circuitry as the km184, but includes a pad and the ability to change capsules.They sound identical to me. The mma6000 sounds just sick with the 4061s, and the Aerco would be a great match with the 184s, IMHO. my vote is the aerco of those..

[thegreatgumbino]

I voted for the Aerco.  There aren't many shows around to listen to, but I'd take Nick up on his offer.  I'm willing to bet they sound great together.  It's a great open rig pre & a great stealth rig pre.  Also, not many people run them, so it would be a different flavor.  If you end up not liking it you can always sell it in the Yard & try something different!

[setboy]

i put my vote in for the Sonosax sx-m. but i think Aerco MP-2 would be a really nice match too



Raphael

[terrapinj]

arent the 184's and 140's about the same sonically? 

supposedly they are not...try doing a few searches as I can't remember the specific threads, but many people have posted that the 140s are sonically superior. but if you can't hear the difference than it's a moot point what others have to say

and congrats on the sale

[cmoorevt]

Aerco vote here.  I fairly certain that Warner (formerly of Terrapin Tapes, now with Neumann USA) uses one with his Neumann mics.  I've heard some of those recordings and they sound excellent.  Only issue is it has no digital output, so if you do use it with an MT you may run into some issues with the MT's supposedly inferior analog input circuitry.

[Rick]

i voted v3... i think the other pre's might be too warm for the 184s.

i would really vote ua-5 t+ mod b/c that way you arent dumping more money in the the pre than the mics... i think that the v3 will show the limitations on the 184's quicker... and then you have to buy new mics too.. 

i know nothing

arent the 184's and 140's about the same sonically? 

Yessir  . the 140 is exactly the same capsule and circuitry as the km184, but includes a pad and the ability to change capsules.They sound identical to me.

I personally think they sound a bit different.

EDIT: Oh, I've always liked the 184/140 > SX-M2 sources too

[Ed.]

184's and 140's are different.  they're a lot alike, but theres a difference there if you listen for it.  To me, the 184's sound a bit crispy, the 140s sound smoother.  if that makes any sense....

and from my experience, the v3 sounds superb with both of them.

[BJ]

thanx guys...i went sd mp-2 as 325$ was just too hard to pass up...

[grider]

arent the 184's and 140's about the same sonically? 

supposedly they are not...try doing a few searches as I can't remember the specific threads, but many people have posted that the 140s are sonically superior. but if you can't hear the difference than it's a moot point what others have to say

and congrats on the sale

I would be surprised of the 184 and the 140 use the same cap, shocked really; the 184 recordings I have heard even with a sweet sounding V3 are just not detailed enough for my ears, so I guess if these mics are the same I would feel the same way about the 140's too

[cmoorevt]

from the neumman.com forums....

Q: Do the km184 and km140 share the same capsule and electronics? i recognize the modular nature of the km100 series, and that the 140 has a -10dB pad, but are there other differences? 

A: Dear Mr. Norman Both microphones are using the same capsule design. Besides of the switch mentioned there are no further differences. With best regards Georg Neumann GmbH, Berlin i.V. Stephan Peus (Director of Development) 


-and a more detailed Q and A-

Q: I'm wondering if the components used are identical-same tolerances, etc. I don't need any more flexibility than the 184 but am skeptical that it will sound like the 140 (which I love the sound-never heard 184s). You mention the use of wind guards in the 140 for wind. While for the 184 you say for wind and plosive sounds. Is there a reason for this or am I just getting too nitpicky. Also do you match mics? Is there more to matching mics other than that they record at the same level? Do people match mics specifically with respect to the frequency response of the individual mic? Should I try to get sequential serial #'s?

A: Dear Mr. Min, the difference between KM140 and KM184 really just lies in the KM140 being part of the KM100 system. Thus it is detachable and can be used with all the different accessories, while the KM184 is a straight-away one-piece microphone. The tolerances for electronics and capsule are identical, so there is no need to worry about that.

Wind and pop noises are due to the same physical reasons (low frequency air movements). The expression 'wind and pop noises' is just a bit more precise than just 'wind noises'.

About matching mics: our standard tolerances given in the data sheets are +/-1dB for sensitivity, and +/-2dB for the over-all frequency response. A simple sensitivity difference can be regulated with the pre-amplifier gain, with no further effect (and 0.5...1dB is just the difference the human ear is able to differentiate). The over-all tolerances could mean, in the case of the KM140/184, at most a slight difference in very high frequency response. But actually our tolerances in production are generally much smaller than the +/-2dB mentioned.
We thus generally say that our capsules are, as a standard, very well matched, and that there is no need for further matching. Consecutive serial numbers are, from an aesthetic point of view, nevertheless an understandably nice thing to have.
Best regards, Georg Neumann GmbH, Berlin Martin Schneider Mic. Development 

[RebelRebel]

I wouldnt be so certain that the higher price tag of the skm 140 doesnt have some sort of effect on percieved sound differences. The mind is a powerful thing. I have never heard any difference whatsoever.
I dont see how there could be any difference. It is , for all practical purposes, the same mic. 

[grider]

this info from Neumann is very surprising to me, I had no idea 184 and 140 are essentially the exact same microphone