Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Aaron41 on January 13, 2006, 02:35:56 AM
-
Hey everyone,
I'm hitting Tim Reynolds at The Intersection in Grand Rapids, MI next month. It is a 400 capacity bar. I saw and taped Pete Yorn there last summer. The show was plenty loud and the tape sounded good.
The big difference between these tour shows is that Tim is going to be solo acoustic. He also allows SBD patches. Since I'm cheap and only have one working JB3 I can only record one source: my AKG 391s > W-Mod UA-5 or a patch from the soundboard.
In everyone's opinion which would be the prefered way of taping? While I'd love to give my 391s more time to shine, I'd prefer the better tape. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
-
Do a matrix, best of both worlds.
-
Could you clip your AT831's to his beard?
-
If you can get in close and capture primarily the accoustic (not PA) sound, then that's the way I'd go, because you've probably got better mics and pres than the house system.
If you're talking sound board vs. taping the PA, I'd go with the board.
Just my .02
-
Tim uses a crapload of effects on his acoustic guitar. And from what I remember, he keeps his monitors pretty low. So his onstage sound really isn't representative of what the FOH sounds like. I'd fly the 390's in the sweet spot if possible. I'm not the biggest fan of boards recordings though so YMMV.
Good Luck!
-
He also allows SBD patches. Since I'm cheap and only have one working JB3 I can only record one source: my AKG 391s > W-Mod UA-5 or a patch from the soundboard.
In everyone's opinion which would be the prefered way of taping? While I'd love to give my 391s more time to shine, I'd prefer the better tape. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
you can record a matrix using the Wmod UA-5, although i have never tried it personally. people have had good results using this method. i vote for experimentation: matrix of mic source and soundboard
-
He also allows SBD patches. Since I'm cheap and only have one working JB3 I can only record one source: my AKG 391s > W-Mod UA-5 or a patch from the soundboard.
In everyone's opinion which would be the prefered way of taping? While I'd love to give my 391s more time to shine, I'd prefer the better tape. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
you can record a matrix using the Wmod UA-5, although i have never tried it personally. people have had good results using this method. i vote for experimentation: matrix of mic source and soundboard
I don't know how I feel about experimenting. If there were another taper there I'd consider running a matrix. If it came out crappy there would still be a good tape to come of the show.
-
He also allows SBD patches. Since I'm cheap and only have one working JB3 I can only record one source: my AKG 391s > W-Mod UA-5 or a patch from the soundboard.
In everyone's opinion which would be the prefered way of taping? While I'd love to give my 391s more time to shine, I'd prefer the better tape. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
you can record a matrix using the Wmod UA-5, although i have never tried it personally. people have had good results using this method. i vote for experimentation: matrix of mic source and soundboard
I don't know how I feel about experimenting. If there were another taper there I'd consider running a matrix. If it came out crappy there would still be a good tape to come of the show.
agreed. if there is another taper you at least have his copy to fall back on if your experiment goes south. but like you said: it is about a month from now. that gives you more than enough time to do your homework. i have heard a lot of matrix sources via the ua-5 and all sound great. plus there is no post mixing involved. check these out:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=13901.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35160.0 >>>>a lot of links here
+t and let us know what you decide
-
I've only had great experiences in the past few months when I've done a matrix. If you have quality headphones or earbuds it makes setting the levels alot easier. And if you read those other topics that were posted above I think there's no way you could make a crappy one.
-
I think it depends on the room and audience. In my (limited) experience, solo acoustic shows in bars or small clubs often have lots of crowd chatter. If you know the room, you may have an idea of how respectful the audience will be. If it is likely that the crowd will be loud, then I'd go with the SBD.
-
I'd probably go soundboard. IF you run a matrix to tape, remember that you'll get a delay running from FOB and you cannot undo the mix.
-
If it's a noisy room and you have to choose, I'd opt for the board patch on a solo show. You'll still pick up distant crowd patter through the stage mics, so it's still sound live.
-
I did my first matrix this weekend and I flew my mics at 9' high to avoid the chatter and the SBD feed was high so this helped. I had my UA5(XLR) inputs turned at 2 clock and my input for SDB(rca) was about 1.5 and this formula came out perfect for me. I was able to check my levels thru my SVU-1 so I was able to control any overload. Good luck.
Peace
-
For a solo acoustic, I would first find out if he uses a direct input (DI) for his guitar or not. If you only see a vocal mic on stage, chances are he is using a DI and the SBD feed will sound much better.
If you see a vocal mic and a lower mic for the guitar, I would ask about onstage first and see if you can place a mini-stand just in front of the vocal/guitar mics and either split the vertical distance between them or line them up just above the lower mic and aim up towards his mouth for the vocals.
-
For a solo acoustic, I would first find out if he uses a direct input (DI) for his guitar or not. If you only see a vocal mic on stage, chances are he is using a DI and the SBD feed will sound much better.
If you see a vocal mic and a lower mic for the guitar, I would ask about onstage first and see if you can place a mini-stand just in front of the vocal/guitar mics and either split the vertical distance between them or line them up just above the lower mic and aim up towards his mouth for the vocals.
I worked with him once this summer. If it's still the same, his setup is pretty simple.
Guitar -> Volume Pedal -> Delay Pedal -> DI Box
-
I vote for running your mics on-stage. In light of the acoustic treatment and spotty board feeds I'd really try and run on-stage or on the lip. I would assume the crowd would be pretty good to you especially since Dave Matthews won't be with him.
-
mic the stacks, for solo acoustic it gives the best results. Bring headphones and mess around with the distance (from the stacks) to get the proper bass balance to compensate for proximity effect. Then mess with the height or angle of the mics to ensure a proper balance of the horn tweeter (usually on top) and the woofer. The results can be much better than a sterile soundboard or a phasy matrix: http://www.archive.org/download/glen2005-08-30.dsd.flac/glen2005-08-30set2t09_vbr.mp3 (http://www.archive.org/download/glen2005-08-30.dsd.flac/glen2005-08-30set2t09_vbr.mp3) and early/late reflections give you a stereo image that isn't present on a board with a solo artist.
The above mp3 is from this show: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=28783&from=BA
Glen Phillips
Live At Jammin' Java
Washington D.C.
August 30th, 2005
Taper: Chris Berryman (auralgratification@yahoo.com)
Source: Stephen Paul Audio Modified AKG C33->Hamptone HVTP2 Stereo Tube Preamp->
TASCAM DV-RA1000 @ 1bit/2.8mhz DSD
Transfer: TASCAM DV-RA1000->Analog XLR Out->Mytek Stereo192 A/D @ 24/44.1->Wavlab5.0 (MegaBitMax dithering via izotope)
another benefit is the near stage location is great for pics!
(http://audio54.archive.org/1/audio/glen2005-08-30.dsd.flac/IMG_1219web.jpg)
my $.02 peace, chris
-
mic the stacks, for solo acoustic it gives the best results.
In some venues, you can't get close to them. At the Ark, where I frequently record solo performers, they run a JBL PA and the four cabinets are all hung near the ceiling. There are two centered over the stage and one on either side facing 90 degrees out.
I agree that sterile soundboards are lacking.. I think they are important to archive if you can get them. I am planning on grabbing more boards with a spare jb3.. I haven't always bothered when I have had the chance.
I have thought about trying to place my mics closer then the first couple feet of the stage. I worry a bit about the performer wanting to move the mic stand. Now it is easy to say that probably and usually won't happen with solo... But then you have those cases where the opening solo performer comes out to sit in with the main act and they start adjusting and dragging, etc.
Since I often run actives on a bar, I could potentially make a small clip to unobtrusively attach my mics to the stand. But I worry about them being used as a convenient "handle" to move the mic stand. Another thought.. 4061's or ATxxx's on the performer's stand.
I record a lot of solo acts so I'm always looking for something better than setting my mics up in the sweet spot to take a mono PA recording.
-
a standard or extened boom to attach to your mic stand will be your best friend, I picked up an AKG boom at GC for $9.99, it screwed right on to the top of my stand and gives me 6 feet of horizontal swing so my stand could be way out of the way to the side of the stage and even if the stacks were above the stage I could still swing close enough. In venues with a u shaped balcony it has been great too, I have managed to clamp the boom and swing the mic right in to the path of the array.
peace, chris
-
I like using booms a lot. But it would take a 12+ foot boom to hit the central PA at this venue. A ceiling mount is a possibility but it would be tricky.
I think the side PA could be boom mic'd. The stand could be strapped around the nearby column (essential due to the tight space and foot traffic). I'll have to give that a hard look and maybe a test.