Topic: lemosax vs nbox+

[Big Perm]

I have an nbox+, i run it in front of the apogee mme.  This makes gain control a pain is the arsh. So, I have been looking for a comparison of the lemosax vs. the nbox+.  Anyone out there run both, have both, listened to a comparison etc.

[H₂O]

I don't know sonically which would be better or how different they would sound but some differences:
- You can run Neumann's and Schoeps caps with the Lemosax (may be possible with nbox) - note that the Neumann AK caps capsule voltage is reversed (High Volatage is 0V and Capsule is ~-50V or so) so the signal is out of phase.
- Lemosax has variable gain - you can get this with the nbox as well as an option or a customization
- Lemosax (LS2 model) uses KCY cable versus a custom active cable - can then get AKI/CMC, VST or VMS, etc
- Lemosax has both Balanced and unBalanced outputs
- nBox supported in states so easier to get repaired
- nBox can be somewhat "customized"
- nbox comes with the custom active cable - Lemosax typically does not
 
 

[Big Perm]

really, nobody has more input than this.  I found the above post very helpful, but  now i am wondering about the sound.  I have an nbox will the lemosax sound similar?
a

[Craig T]

I guess I should fire this up...

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=506051

Comparison between the Sonosax SX-M2/LS ("Lemosax") and the NBox+

Umphrey's Mcgee
April 18, 2007
Penn's Peak - Jim Thorpe,PA

Source 1: Schoeps MK4(DIN)>kcy>Sonosax SX-M2/LS>Hydra Silver XLR Interconnects >Sound Devices 722(24/96)
Lineage: Wavelab 6(resample,dither)->cd wave->flac
Taped by: Jon Merin
Transferred by: Jon Merin

Source 2: Schoeps mk4 (DIN)> NBox+> SD 722 (24/96); Wave Lab 5 (fades)> CDWave (tracks)> Wave Lab 5 (resample, Apogee uv22hr dither)> FLAC16
Recorded by Craig Taraszki (ctaraszki@hotmail.com)

Both rigs were on the same stand, about 35' from stage, center, 8.5' high.

Set 2
01. Higgins

Tracks:
1-9, odd: source A (1 minute intervals, 5 second cross-fades)
2-10, even: source B (1 minute intervals, 5 second cross-fades)

11: source A
12: source B

[Big Perm]

exactly what i am looking for

[Big Perm]

well, the torrent has been orphaned, and i can not download it...anyone know if there was a poll on this, or have heard it and could give me some feedback
a

[Craig T]

I guess I should fire this up...

meaning:  I guess I should re-seed it.

I have it on one of about 5 HDD's which are packed somewhere.  Give me a day or two to find it.

[Big Perm]

thank u sir

[JasonSobel]

if I were you, I would also consider a Schoeps VMS02IB.

[sparkey]

I don't think they make those any more....

if I were you, I would also consider a Schoeps VMS02IB.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

It would be interesting to hear that comp.  When I tested the non-lemo sonosax with schoeps and gefells, I felt it lacked detail and general musical accuracy compared to the v3 and aerco.  That was on 12 string electric guitar.

What about running your nbox+ straight into the 7xx?

[deadheaded]

if I were you, I would also consider a Schoeps VMS02IB.

i'd suggest the vms5u, balanced output.

[johnw]

Adam, I saw you poking around for some 4Vs. If you've got the ching to slut around, pick up the lemosax. You can borrow my 41s and 722 and do another comp if you want. 41>nbox>722 and 41>lemosax>722.

I'd also add that the nbox supplies 60V to the caps and the lemosax only 48V. In case you didn't know, the CMC6 bodies supply 60V to the capsule. Not sure what effect the reduced voltage has if any this has on dynamic range/sensitivity but there was a huge fight on this site a few years ago about it. That is also the reason I decided to not go with the schoeps CMRs as the sensitivity is reduced by about 40%.

I'd guess that the VMS021B does supply 60V and would serve you well with the adjustable gain. Not sure if it is continuous or stepped though. They are hard to find used. They are easily stealthed - about the size of the Nbox and Lemosax. I think the Nbox is based on the Rbox which was based on the VMS021B.

The vms5U is bigger than the VMS021B I believe, but obviously you could run that with both the Neumanns (with bodies) and Schoeps capsules (with CMC bodies or KCY cable). I think it runs $2600 or so and you have to buy the KCY cable on top of that.

Finally, the last option as I hinted at above are the Schoeps CMRs. You can get a set with a battery box from the Oades for around $1700 or build a battery box yourself and save $400. This is the smallest stealthy preamp option since there isn't a preamp (only 9V battery to supply current to the capsules). Thus there is no adjustable gain. With the Minime, that might not be a bad thing since you can just adjust gain with the pre section of the MiniMe. The downside is the reduced sensativity. It is around 8 mV/PA for the mk4 which is normally 13 I think. Also the "body" that houses the electronics and screws onto the capsule is a few millimeters longer than the KC5/KCY connection, so the the microphone is a bit longer and thus a bit harder to stealth. Probably not an issue if you have 4v caps though.

Either way, I'm loving the slutting going on here!


Few edits for grammar and such.
EDIT#2 for correction of cmr sensitivities.

[JasonSobel]

I don't think they make those any more....

if I were you, I would also consider a Schoeps VMS02IB.

it's true, they don't make the VMS02IB.  But I don't think Sonosax makes the SX-M2 anymore either.  So if the original poster was already thinking of looking to get a used product that is somewhat hard to track down, opening the options to another box could only help.  Who knows, maybe a used VMS02IB will pop up for sale before a lemosax?  I just thought I'd throw that out there as another option.

if I were you, I would also consider a Schoeps VMS02IB.

i'd suggest the vms5u, balanced output.

yes, that's another option, though, if I recall correctly, the VMS5U is larger than the older VMS02IB.

Anyway, I hope I haven't brought the discussion too far off-topic...

[edtyre]

What about running your nbox+ straight into the 7xx?

This sounds great! Why not run this way?

[johnw]

A lemosax was recently for sale here and I believed purchased by the OP 

[midside]

lemosax is still available...

[Big Perm]

john we need to run a comp with mk41>nbox>722 & mk41>nbox>MME>722

if i cant really tell the difference, i may have to dump the MME 

i'm finishing Umphrey's tour right now but when i get home if the lemosax is still available i may have to take that as a sign that i should pick it up
adam

[StuStu]

For the record, both Schoeps pre's are stepped gain and the Sonosax is not.

[Dkrogh]

I would also like to hear this comp.  Been thinking of the lemosax with mk41 and r0hr as a setup lately.  It's that or going with the nbox +

[GDfan]

someone posted in the ebay thread that a lemosax was available there

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=200456945854&Category=119018&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

[Brian Skalinder]

I'd also add that the nbox supplies 60V to the caps and the lemosax only 48V. In case you didn't know, the CMC6 bodies supply 60V to the capsule. Not sure what effect the reduced voltage has if any this has on dynamic range/sensitivity but there was a huge fight on this site a few years ago about it.

Old post on the subject, including content direct from Schoeps tech support (see the last answer in red re 48v v. 60v; note I've reformatted the quote to make it easier to read - removed italics, added some "white" space, etc. - but haven't changed any content):

The orginal thread was locked. My engineer buddy, Vollmer at schoeps sent me this response:

A schoeps capsule requires 60V phantom power to operate at full
sensitivity and dynamic range.

Yes.

A CMC6 microphone body does a DC to DC conversion where 48V are
converted to 60V to bring the capsule to manufacturers specs for full
sensitivity.

No. The CMC6 does not convert "48V" to 60V. A CMC6 works with 12V or
48V. In both cases there is a loss of voltage at the powering resistors
(example 6k8 at 48V). So the CMC6 only gets about 33V (@48V) or 10V
(@12V). It creates internally a stabilized voltage of about 6.5 Volts.
These 6.5 Volts are converted to the polarization voltage of stabilized 60
Volts
 
A VMS pre amp provides 60V of power at the microphone capsule when used
with a KCY/KC5 system and no CMC6 bodies.

Yes.

The sonosax may be modified with a 5 pin (I think its 5) 'active'
system that will enable the sonosax to provide the 48V phantom power to the
capsules.  48V phantom....what?  Thats right.  This results in that
flat non existant transition between all frequencies recording that just
doesnt sound "LIVE"

When you connect the MK capsules to the Sonosax with 48V powering they
will have a 1.9dB lower sensitivity - that`s all.

[Big Perm]

I have an Nbox+ for sale...PM me if interested
a