Topic: DSLR questions

[sparkey]

  I was giving some thought to buying a nice camera and have seen some amazing photographs with a Canon 7D.  They have these at CostCo:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/ProductSet.aspx?Prodid=11612283&search=canon&Mo=139&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=canon&Ntt=canon&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

http://www.costco.com/Browse/ProductSet.aspx?Prodid=11616065&search=canon&Mo=139&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=canon&Ntt=canon&No=2&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

Edit to add, this looks like an upgrade from the Rebel:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11595989&search=canon+camera&Mo=13&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=canon+camera&Ntt=canon+camera&No=13&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1#BVRRWidgetID

The only difference I can see between these two packages is the telephoto lens.  Anyone have an opinion on whether or not that lens is worth the additional $400?  Suggestions on other cameras I might want to look at?

Thanks!

Josh

[phanophish]

The big question is what are your plans for the camera?  My 10,000 ft opinion would be go for the 60D.  VERY good body, terrific in low light.  Skip any of the extra kit lenses and plan to use the $$ for better quality glass.  With some more specific info on how you plan to use the camera I can make more structured recommendations.  Does Costco sell the body only?

[sparkey]

The big question is what are your plans for the camera?  My 10,000 ft opinion would be go for the 60D.  VERY good body, terrific in low light.  Skip any of the extra kit lenses and plan to use the $$ for better quality glass.  With some more specific info on how you plan to use the camera I can make more structured recommendations.  Does Costco sell the body only?

The only specific plans I have for the camera is to photograph still shots of glass objects for my website and I would also need a macro lens to get the small stuff.  It would be great if I could get a camera that was quicker on the draw that could focus and shoot multiple frames a second (e.g. photograph my dog sprinting across the field).

Years ago my dad gave me a nice Nikon SLR, which I took with me to Europe.  I have amazing pictures of that trip, and would love to have a piece of equipment that was capable of producing images of that quality.   How does the 60D compare to the 7D?

Thanks!

Josh

[phanophish]

The big question is what are your plans for the camera?  My 10,000 ft opinion would be go for the 60D.  VERY good body, terrific in low light.  Skip any of the extra kit lenses and plan to use the $$ for better quality glass.  With some more specific info on how you plan to use the camera I can make more structured recommendations.  Does Costco sell the body only?

The only specific plans I have for the camera is to photograph still shots of glass objects for my website and I would also need a macro lens to get the small stuff.  It would be great if I could get a camera that was quicker on the draw that could focus and shoot multiple frames a second (e.g. photograph my dog sprinting across the field).

Years ago my dad gave me a nice Nikon SLR, which I took with me to Europe.  I have amazing pictures of that trip, and would love to have a piece of equipment that was capable of producing images of that quality.   How does the 60D compare to the 7D?

Thanks!

Josh

Both are very nice cameras that would be head and shoulders above an old film SLR.  The difference is more subtle and IMO you would probably be better off with 60D if only for the slightly lower cost that would free up some $$ for what really matters which is glass.

Have a look at the Reviews of both on the DP Review site.  I think their reviews are very well done and easy to understand...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60D/

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/

All that said.  I'd look for a body only and then, if you stick with an APS-C sensor, maybe take a look at some of the 17-50 2.8 lenses out there.  Sigma makes a nice one for Nikon but the Canon version for some reason is not a fixed aperture.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/670047-REG/Sigma_668101_17_70mm_F2_8_4_DC_Macro.html

Tamron has a nice one, but it is not Macro...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423714-REG/Tamron_AF016C700_17_50mm_f_2_8_XR_Di.html

That would be a great starting point and you can add lenses later.  The less expensive "kit" type zooms are pretty easy to come by on the used market and could be picked up pretty cheaply once you really know what you want/need.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Both are very nice cameras that would be head and shoulders above an old film SLR.

The gadget and MP aspect of digital is so incredibly over-hyped.

No doubt digital is much more convenient and easy to use vs. film.  But never before in history, have so many people, taken so many medicore photos.

I am not suggesting he use film.  But the hype can be a bit much.  I contend it would be a huge waste to spend money chasing megapixels.   The best value, by far, would be to find a friend who wants to upgrade.

Any dslr (and many point and shoots) can take great pictures of glass objects.  That's mostly about lighting, stabilizing the camera with a tripod (and remote release or self-timer), and doing the post-processing to get the final look right.  If you are publishing the photos to the web, you're likely shrinking them significantly.

As it goes, the lenses are the critical part.  There are a lot of mediocre lenses out there.

The best camera is the one you have with you..  My old Canon S100 cost me $600 back in '00, and is only 2MP.  I took thousands of really important photos with it.  Now, we have compact panasonics with good 10X optical zooms.  And even those have gotten a lot better since they first came out.  There are just so many times I don't want to take a dslr with me (though modern plastic lenses are really light).

There are a lot of ways to satisfy your requirements, but I wouldn't drop big bucks to get big megapixels.  An older dslr would work great.  In a few years, dslr's will be greatly improved and wayyyyy cheaper.  You could spend a couple hundred bucks now, keep your eye out for good lenses, and then upgrade the body in a couple/few years (or sooner if you decide it is holding you back).  At some point, I'll upgrade to full frame.  That is getting cheaper.  In the meantime, I shoot medium format film for serious stuff.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm with pop:  go body-only and buy your lenses separately.  Kit lenses won't provide the macro capability you need (more on this momentarily), and they definitely won't provide the wide aperture needed to ensure high shutter speeds for dog action shots.

igte is spot on that it doesn't pay to get wrapped up in the feature / MP race game.  I have a 4-5 generation old dSLR and the biggest obstacle to my taking HQ photos:  my own skills.  Consider buying 2-4 generations old for camera body and spending the bulk of your budget on lenses.

FWIW, I've used the Pentax variant of the Sigma 17-70.  I sold it, and wish I hadn't.  It was an outstanding walkaround / general purpose lens.  But note it's not a true macro, though it may provide sufficient close-focus capability depending on the size of your subjects.  If you do have a need to go full-on macro, I've found macro shooting best with manual focus, so you can save a few bucks by buying an older, used MF lens.

For product shots, you'll probably want to come up with a light box of some kind.  DIY is the way to go here, I think.  Not difficult, and cheap.

Spend the bulk of your lens budget where you'll really benefit from the extra money spent:  a fast (and therefore big!) zoom for dog action shots.  Depending on your expected shooting distance, an f/2.8 in the one (or more) of the following ranges might do the trick:  17/18 - 50mm (Tamron or Sigma?), 50 - 135 (Tokina?), 70-200 (Tamron or Sigma?).  Of course, Canon/Nikon makes lenses in those ranges, as well, but you'll pay a premium for them.

Do you still have your old lenses from the Nikon SLR?  If you still have them, you might be able to use them on a Nikon dSLR.  Can't say for sure, as I'm not familiar with Nikon's backwards compatibility, only Pentax's.

As with recording gear:  don't be afraid to take advantage of the used market!

[sparkey]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

It looks like the CostCo price on the 60D is slightly higher than the price on just the body from other places.  I like the idea of being able to shoot full HD in low light settings, which I believe is one of the strongest points of the Canon (?).  I've also been frustrated by the slowness of little point and shoot cameras, so I'd like to find something that is fast enough to shoot multiple frames a second without having to "think" too long before focusing and snapping.  High megapixel is nice, but fast enough to get quick shots and action (my dog).  Photographing glass is important, but the real enjoyment will be in taking the pictures outside of that.

What are some suggestions for models and brands to look at for used gear?  I've heard great things about the Rebel T2i using the same technology as the 7D; I know that is new, but getting two lenses and the body for $1050 is tempting.

Josh

[phanophish]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

It looks like the CostCo price on the 60D is slightly higher than the price on just the body from other places.  I like the idea of being able to shoot full HD in low light settings, which I believe is one of the strongest points of the Canon (?).  I've also been frustrated by the slowness of little point and shoot cameras, so I'd like to find something that is fast enough to shoot multiple frames a second without having to "think" too long before focusing and snapping.  High megapixel is nice, but fast enough to get quick shots and action (my dog).  Photographing glass is important, but the real enjoyment will be in taking the pictures outside of that.

What are some suggestions for models and brands to look at for used gear?  I've heard great things about the Rebel T2i using the same technology as the 7D; I know that is new, but getting two lenses and the body for $1050 is tempting.

Josh

The Canon Rebels are very nice options.  You can also find the Nikon D80 or likely the D90s in that price range.  I have an older D200 (Can be found for ~$600 used) that is a tank but leaves a bit on the table sensor performance wise compared to the more recent bodies.  I am a Nikon shooter so know them best, but the differences (Nikon vs Canon) are as much ergonomic and personal preference as anything.  All are great cameras and have comparable high quality lens options.  Things to look out for on used cameras are shutter counts and overall age/warranty status.  One repair can easily run $300+ so it does not take much to kill the cost savings from buying new.  It's also always a great time to buy used/refurbished/old stock right after the manufacturer releases a new body.  The old stuff still in stores drops and great deals on new equipment can be found.  Skalinder is a big fan of either the Sony or Pentax lines (I can't remember which) but your options for used equipment are a bit more limited simply because there are not as many around so not as much used gear in the marketplace.  And I always enjoyed being able to borrow lenses and such from friends that had Nikon gear.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I consider mirror lock up a requirement.  For some reason ($$), nikon withholds that feature on many of their cameras.  It is a common feature on canon.  It doesn't matter how good your tripod is, if your mirror is banging on a long exposure, it will blur.

[sparkey]

I think I'd like to buy a new camera.  It seems like kind of a delicate piece of equipment and it also seems like the used ones don't depreciate like guitars or microphones.  Am I correct in thinking that the D60 is somewhere between the T2i and the 7D?

[thekhz]

Am I correct in thinking that the D60 is somewhere between the T2i and the 7D?

Yes, the 60D is between the T2i and the 7D.

I would get the 60D over the T2i if it is in your budget because the 60D has 9 cross-type auto-focus point vs the T2i having only a single center cross-type with 8 slot-type auto-focus points.  The T2i and any DSLR these days are more than capable of taking excellent pictures in the right hands.  I would not get the T1i (someone was asking about it in another thread) because the T2i/60D/7D have better low light performance (less noise at ISO >= 1600).

I don't know much about Nikon cameras, but I would not get the Nikon D80 because it does not use a CMOS sensor, and has higher noise compared to the other cameras that use a CMOS sensor such as the more recent D3100/D5000 etc.  The Nikon D90 uses a CMOS sensor but has been replaced by the Nikon D7000.  If you are considering the Canon 60D, also consider the Nikon D7000.

Regarding lenses, I would recommend that you only invest in the 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 IS kit lens that comes with the camera to start with and then from there you will know if the aperature is fast enough for you, how you like variable aperature lens vs constant aperature, and if you need wider than 18mm or longer than 55mm.  The kit lens is worth about $100 so it is a minimal cost to learn from.

One more thing.  Go to a store and see how the camera fits in your hands before buying.  Personally, I like how the smaller T2i/60D fits in my hand vs the thicker 7D.  If you have large hands, you may feel the opposite.

You can learn a lot about photography at this site:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

[printguy]

Are you set on buying Canon? Have you tried any of the cameras? Aside from how they feel in your hands - the intuitiveness of the menus may sway your decision. Nikons menu structure makes sense to me; Canons doesn't.

I have a Nikon D80 and just replaced my D200 with a D7000. I believe that the D7000 is the best crop-sensor camera available from any maker right now. As with anything tech - give it a few months and that may change.

What do your friends use - it's nice to be able to borrow a lens instead of renting/buying.

And does your local camera store rent gear? Mine does and allows you to put the one day rental fee towards the purchase of what you rented.

www.dpreview.com is good for reviews.

[Brian Skalinder]

I believe that the D7000 is the best crop-sensor camera available from any maker right now.

Except for the Pentax K5. 

I'll 2nd someone else's recommendation to physically try out Nikon and Canon at the store -- which should prove very easy considering their market presence.  (I had a helluva time finding a Pentax to try in-store.)  Canons feel terrible in my hands (for a variety of reasons) and I find the menu structure infuriating.  Nikons feel much better and I find the menu structure much more usable.

[phanophish]

I think I'd like to buy a new camera.  It seems like kind of a delicate piece of equipment and it also seems like the used ones don't depreciate like guitars or microphones. 

I would say that DSLR bodies do depreciate.  For example my D200 new was around $1600, I purchased it Refurbished for I think $1100.  Right now used they are in the $600 range.  So well over 60% from new and nearly 50 even though I bought it refurbished.  tHe rapid increases in sensor performance and features (video, etc) have kept the DSLR body market pretty active.

Lenses on the other hand tend to hold their value much better, particularly at the high end.

[sparkey]

Are you set on buying Canon? Have you tried any of the cameras? Aside from how they feel in your hands - the intuitiveness of the menus may sway your decision. Nikons menu structure makes sense to me; Canons doesn't.

I'm inclined to buy the Canon for the HD video capabilities and ability to shoot in very low light.  Those are the strengths of the Canon over the Nikon, correct?

The D60 package looks like an excellent deal for the money.  Nice body and the photo geeks give decent reviews to the lens it includes, which seems like a step up from the standard lens.  Anyone wanna buy a V2?  :-)

Josh