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Author Topic: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power  (Read 12511 times)

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cashandkerouac

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Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« on: January 27, 2011, 12:52:09 PM »
I'm looking for a good quality pre-amp that will supply 48v phantom power.  Right now the Aerco MP-2 is the front-runner, but I'd prefer something that is more similar in size and closer in price to the Naiant Tinybox.  Any suggestions?  Can the Tinybox be custom ordered with 48v rather than 12v phantom power?  Thanks. 

Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 12:55:07 PM »
the tinybox does not do 48, but the littlebox can
prob roughly the same size as aerco but much less in cost, custom made for you, ships faster
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline Todd R

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 02:08:02 PM »
In the way of small preamps, there are (including historical and current models) the Aerco, the Beyer MV100, Sonosax sxm2, EAA/Aeta PSP2, Aeta PSP3, Sound Devices MP2 and MixPre, and the Naiant littlebox.

I'm sure this list isn't all of them, just some I can think of off the top of my head.  I don't think any are smaller than the Aerco MP2 though.  Beyond that, they're all probably pretty much in the same ballpark for size.

The tinybox does not do 48v phantom, and can't be configured to since the blocking capacitors needed to block the 48v DC are too large to fit in the tinybox case.  I'd imagine this would be the case for any 48v preamp attempting to be that small, so I'd doubt there are any 48v preamps the size of the tinybox out there.

Not to re-open your mic question, but the smallest solutions are probably to use the tinybox with schoeps caps and schoeps CMR cables (and no bodies), or similarly to use the Beyer ck930 caps and cables with a custom made tinybox (again with no bodies). There are some threads with pictures on these options.

Short of that, getting a pair of mics that can run on 12v phantom like the Milab vm44-link and pairing them with a tinybox also yields a pretty small solution.

I'm curious if there are any 48v phantom preamps out there smaller than the Aerco for use with any 48v mics (thus not including the schoeps nbox solution).  I can't recall any options though smaller than than those on the list above.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline jbell

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 02:30:50 PM »
What's the cost on a new Aerco MP2? 
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 02:33:07 PM »
Although it's not just a recorder - the Sonosax mini-r82 is a little bigger then a Korg MR-1, runs off 4 AA's and not only provides 48V but also is a 8 track recorder.


A little pricy at $5K USD but it's Swiss made!  Perfect recorder for the Rolex Submariner waring taper.
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 02:37:48 PM »
I'm curious if there are any 48v phantom preamps out there smaller than the Aerco for use with any 48v mics (thus not including the schoeps nbox solution).  I can't recall any options though smaller than than those on the list above.

Bingo. I almost listed an abreviated form, but realized that while I think the sax is sort of small when I hold it, it's not as small as the aerco, and if size is important, it's not going to beat the mp-2. The littlebox gets a good mention because it's comparatively cheap so a small hit on space may be worth it.

Although it's not just a recorder - the Sonosax mini-r82 is a little bigger then a Korg MR-1, runs off 4 AA's and not only provides 48V but also is a 8 track recorder.


A little pricy at $5K USD but it's Swiss made!  Perfect recorder for the Rolex Submariner waring taper.

touche

the r82 will fit the bill if price isn't a problem and you're willing to ditch your recorder as well.  ;D
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Offline OFOTD

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 02:51:21 PM »
A little pricy at $5K USD but it's Swiss made!  Perfect recorder for the Rolex Submariner waring taper.

the r82 will fit the bill if price isn't a problem and you're willing to ditch your recorder as well.  ;D

At least you'd still have a sweet Submariner on your wrist.   :D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 02:52:18 PM »
A wendt X2 and there is one in the YS! 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141314.0
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 02:55:27 PM by jmbell »
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline sunjan

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 03:46:54 PM »
I put the dimensions of gear mentioned into a spreadsheet.
Turns out the Aerco is one of the the smallest pre, at 18 cu.inch, even compared to all-in-one recorders.
The only P48 device smaller than that is the Denecke PS-2 (15 cu.in), but it doesn't come with any gain.

Other contenders and their cubic footprint:
Sonosax MiniR82   77 16.4
Aerco MP-2           16 18
Core Sound Mic2496  23
Zoom H4n           23
Littlebox                   25
Tascam DR-100   27
PSP 3                       27
MV100                     30
SX-M2                      30
Mixpre                     35
SD MP-2                   35
USBPre2                   47
Echo Audiofire 4   49
Graham-Patten DMic-20/24  56
Wendt X2            58

(edited, sorry got some figures wrong)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:22:14 PM by sunjan »
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800
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cashandkerouac

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2011, 03:55:16 PM »
What's the cost on a new Aerco MP2?

$750

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 04:34:27 PM »

Sonosax MiniR82   77


I don't think it's that big - I actual have one (temporarily) right now and it's much smaller than I thought - maybe an optical illusion or something (a swiss mind game).


I'll post some comparison photos soon but it looks to be about the size of a sony M1.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 04:48:43 PM »
Yeah, good point.  From what I've seen, the miniR82 is 4.75" x 3.15" x 1.1", putting it at 16.4 cubic inches.  Considering it includes the recorder as well, definitely the smallest solution.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 09:21:27 PM »
I put the dimensions of gear mentioned into a spreadsheet.
Turns out the Aerco is really the smallest, at 16 cu.inch, even compared to all-in-one recorders.
The only P48 device smaller than that is the Denecke PS-2 (15 cu.in), but it doesn't come with any gain.

Other contenders and their cubic footprint:
Aerco MP-2   16
Core Sound Mic2496   23
Zoom H4n   23
Littlebox   25
Tascam DR-100   27
USBPre2   47
Echo Audiofire 4   49
Graham-Patten DMic-20/24 (disc.)   56
Wendt X2    58
...
Sonosax MiniR82   77
guess i don't understand how to come up with cubic inch
the lb is .2"x.1x.7 inch bigger then the aerco
how does that come out to 9 cubic inch bigger?
isn't a cubic inch equal to a cube thats sides are all 1"
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 11:40:34 AM »
Todd is right, I goofed on the MiniR82 dimensions.

Will, the cubic footprint is simply the W x D x H multiplied.
As an example, Littlebox specs are:
"Case size, standard: 4.7" x 3.1" x 1.7" (120mm x 78mm x 43mm)"

4.7 x 3.1 x 1.7 = 24.769

Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2011, 12:17:30 PM »
Todd is right, I goofed on the MiniR82 dimensions.

Will, the cubic footprint is simply the W x D x H multiplied.
As an example, Littlebox specs are:
"Case size, standard: 4.7" x 3.1" x 1.7" (120mm x 78mm x 43mm)"

4.7 x 3.1 x 1.7 = 24.769
gotcha

the aerco is 18 then
4x3x1.5
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2011, 05:19:19 PM »
could you do an extended case version with aa or 9v sled? 
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2011, 05:47:31 PM »
Just a thought the Aerco uses 9v batteries.

Extended tinybox?  No, that would be a littlebox.  Those battery trays aren't exactly small you know . . .
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline Todd R

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2011, 06:10:07 PM »
It's possible to design a P48 tinybox but it would lack an internal battery.  I don't think that's a very compelling product, but if enough people think otherwise . . .

Possible to do a 48v tinybox with 1:1 microtransformers to block the 48v DC instead of the larger blocking capacitors?  Of course, this assumes the tranfos are smaller than the caps, but I thought they were.  Aiming of course to still keep the battery inside.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2011, 08:59:29 PM »
I built a 5 x 9v NiMH littlebox (kit) into a Hammond 1590BB enclosure.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=123658.0

I *think* it's the same enclosure as the Aerco. It's very small and sounds great!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod), Denon DTR-80p

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »
how would one power the tiny box if it was 48v?
external power?? to me that would defeat the purpose

i like not needing tools to change the battery, ie lb vs aerco
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 12:51:24 AM »
how would one power the tiny box if it was 48v?
external power?? to me that would defeat the purpose

i like not needing tools to change the battery, ie lb vs aerco

conversely, I'd rather have a removable 9v for the (polarization 48v tinybox), even if it meant removing the case each evening to change it. I'd use it so little that the internal l-ion would have to be removed/changed before I really got a good use out of it. I guess in some ways if a removable 9v isn't an option down the road, I'd gaffer tape it to the bottom of the box and wire a connector going inside somewhere. Ugly as sin, but it would allow me to change the battery. I've gotten burned twice on hard to remove l-ion units already so I'm weary of them. ymmv
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 08:38:15 AM »
i agree
a 48v where you had to remove the case would be better imo then nothing at all
akg actives are better then a 48v tinybox too ;)
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2011, 01:03:01 PM »
You can have a 9V tinybox now, you just have to request it.  You need to be a bit careful with closing the case as the screws are steel but the case is aluminum.  If you overtorque the screws you'll strip the case.


oooo, aaaaaaa. shiney. thanks for the info.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 04:19:05 PM »
P48 or P12, but I think many microphones do not take the full advantage of P48. Many are specified for 9-52 V. Maybe some are doing fine on P12? It is up to which microphones are going to be used.


Roger

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2011, 04:50:46 PM »
P48 or P12, but I think many microphones do not take the full advantage of P48. Many are specified for 9-52 V. Maybe some are doing fine on P12? It is up to which microphones are going to be used.


Roger
doing fine and full potential are different too
in the end it comes down to your ears imo
if you have mics that can run at 12v but sound better at 48v you may or may not care for the 12v sound
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2011, 06:01:09 PM »
P48 or P12, but I think many microphones do not take the full advantage of P48. Many are specified for 9-52 V. Maybe some are doing fine on P12? It is up to which microphones are going to be used.


Roger
doing fine and full potential are different too
in the end it comes down to your ears imo
if you have mics that can run at 12v but sound better at 48v you may or may not care for the 12v sound

has anyone actually done testing on this? I'd honestly be surprised if schoeps, beyer, and akg all advertised compatibility at P12 and sounded "better" at P48. That seems like an engineering flaw to me.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2011, 09:32:13 AM »
The tradional Schoeps circuitry supplies the same voltage to the impedance convertering stage with P12 or P48. The buffer stage will probably have a higher maximum swing while running on P48. How many are really running their microphones at that high SPL to explore the difference? Normally we do not have 125+ dB in concerts, have we? I think we can find the figures in the specifications of some microphones.

Roger

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2011, 09:57:56 AM »
Short of that, getting a pair of mics that can run on 12v phantom like the Milab vm44-link and pairing them with a tinybox also yields a pretty small solution.


^
Has anyone out there with a pair of Milab VM44-Links gone the 12v phantom route pairing them with a tinybox?  If so I'd love to hear the results as I'd like to have that option available for myself.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 09:59:31 AM by dactylus »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2011, 04:15:39 PM »
The tradional Schoeps circuitry supplies the same voltage to the impedance convertering stage with P12 or P48. The buffer stage will probably have a higher maximum swing while running on P48. How many are really running their microphones at that high SPL to explore the difference? Normally we do not have 125+ dB in concerts, have we? I think we can find the figures in the specifications of some microphones.

Roger

Correct, we normally don't. I've only had 2 instances where I came close (mathematically the second one came out to just under 125 and I didn't measure the other) and both were cramped stage lip/onstage environments.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline DSatz

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 04:29:51 PM »
page, there are many different circuit arrangements for condenser microphones, so I can't say how they all behave. Furthermore there is no standard for "9 - 52 Volt phantom powering" so any manufacturer who lists such a specification may seem to be doing the customers a big favor, but in fact any reference to an established powering standard is being evaded in that way.

In general, most microphones that can accept "9 - 52 Volts" are something like a 12-Volt phantom microphone that is designed to physically tolerate 52 Volts. They either are electret ("pre-polarized") microphones, or else they use a DC/DC converter internally so that the capsule is polarized at the intended voltage no matter what you supply them with (within their range, of course). Whether the audio output circuitry benefits from a higher supply voltage than the minimum would vary with the particular circuit design.

Schoeps CMC 6 and CCM microphones have come up in this discussion, and it's worth mentioning that they are something of an exception to the above. They use DC/DC converters, but instead of designing for the lowest allowable voltage and then throwing away what they don't need (i.e. converting it to heat inside the amplifer), they actually sense the incoming voltage and switch the converters to one of two specific modes. As a result they can (and do) conform to both ISO standard 12-Volt and ISO standard 48-Volt phantom powering, with identical audio performance, including maximum SPL.

But when they run at 12 Volts the DC conversion is more efficient, so for battery-powered recording, that would be the preferred mode if you have a choice. (48 V at 5 mA = 240 mW, while 12 V at 10 mA is only 120 mW.)

--best regards
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 11:01:05 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 11:15:22 PM »
A little pricy at $5K USD but it's Swiss made!  Perfect recorder for the Rolex Submariner waring taper.

the r82 will fit the bill if price isn't a problem and you're willing to ditch your recorder as well.  ;D

At least you'd still have a sweet Submariner on your wrist.   :D

I'm partial to the Turn-O-Graph myself.


Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2011, 05:44:58 AM »
I think it is misleading with "phantom power". It seems that some believe there is power involved, that something is amplified and that is rarely the case. Phantom power supply or phantom powering is more appropriate.

Roger

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2011, 05:03:27 PM »
I'm partial to the Turn-O-Graph myself.

I love that SS Date-Just.  Not very many Turn-O-Graph DJ's around that's for sure.    Great looking timepiece. 

Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D



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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2011, 07:11:24 PM »
Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D

Oh, that's nice... I like the green bezel.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 07:13:11 PM by su6oxone »

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2011, 02:21:49 AM »
Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D

Oh, that's nice... I like the green bezel.

Me too.  The green bezel was the big selling point for me.  Only the 50th Anniversary Subs have the green bezel.  Unlike other Submariners they also have the maxi dial. There is a new one 'the hulk' that has the green bezel AND a green dial.   A little too much green for me on that one.   

I wish they had a a 48v version though...  ;)   ^^ sorry for the hijack

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2011, 09:18:02 AM »
I am going to develop a preamp, we are already working on the phantom supply circuit that will be the size of the 9100 preamp with FULL 48 volts and operate on 2 AA batteries or 9V we have yet to determine this. The preamp will have a single gain control with 6-12 steps and a simple vu meter. I will have this finished by the end of this year. This will be one of the smallest preamps in existence for stealth work. There will be other features that I cant speak of at the moment but its coming. When it does we will allow one to be lent out on the loaner section with a security deposit for evaluation. I am also in the works of opening up a Church Audio USA for emergency service of this preamp and for future designs / products all existing Church Audio products will be sold in Canada.. All preamps including the new line will still be shipped from Canada and be hand built by me. This preamp will be stereo.
for warranty returns email me at
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2011, 09:38:40 AM »
That's great Chris.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2011, 09:44:11 AM »
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »
today is like christmas in july for folks after small gear.

Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

If you are just asking between the two options, maybe create a poll? dunno if that would be better or not.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline acidjack

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2011, 12:33:50 PM »
OK then, I can't let a core product line go, I'll have long tinybox with P48 out by the end of March . . . that is 0.9" x 2.1" x 4.7", or 9 cu. in.  I'll try and see if I can keep the design to 4" deep and cut the case, that case is easier to lop off than the others, that will keep it to 7.5 cu. in.

Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

- All front panel controls:  6-pin mini-XLR, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, on/off switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  Basically the same as tinybox but with P48.

- Rear panel input:  2x 3-pin mini-XLRs on rear; front panel:  minijack PIP input, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, low/off/high power switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  This is a littlebox in an extended tinybox case.r

I'd think for what you are doing, all front panel controls would be better....
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Offline notlance

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2011, 12:48:32 PM »
Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

- All front panel controls:  6-pin mini-XLR, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, on/off switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  Basically the same as tinybox but with P48.

- Rear panel input:  2x 3-pin mini-XLRs on rear; front panel:  minijack PIP input, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, low/off/high power switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  This is a littlebox in an extended tinybox case.r

I vote for the second option with rear panel inputs.  I never run out of a bag so I don't need the front inputs, and since I have a SD 788t I already have the 3-pin mini XLR to XLR adaptors already built.  Selfish reasons all.

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2011, 12:58:08 PM »
I vote for the second option with rear panel inputs.  I never run out of a bag so I don't need the front inputs, and since I have a SD 788t I already have the 3-pin mini XLR to XLR adaptors already built.  Selfish reasons all.

Exactly, open taping, I'd probably go for the 2x 3pin for similar reasons, but if I was stealthing, that single 6pin on the front with nothing on the back looks mighty appealing...
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Napo

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2011, 01:21:42 PM »
Even with stealthing I would go for front and rear panels.

Soldering a six-pin cable may be a bitch and not very durable.

BTW, Chris, Jon; you are my champions for stealth situations (the only option in 99% of cases in Italy). I will end up buying both  ;D

CA-11's>CA-9200>M10

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2011, 01:25:23 PM »
I'd vote for the 2 mini xlrs too!
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2011, 01:31:04 PM »
Even with stealthing I would go for front and rear panels.

Soldering a six-pin cable may be a bitch and not very durable.

Ah, I just have someone else I trust do that.  :) :P

The bummer in my experience on that is the mini-xlrs don't work well as either stubbies or right angles, otherwise I'd be more open to the idea of stuff on both panels.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline sunjan

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2011, 02:30:08 PM »
...the size of the 9100 preamp with FULL 48 volts and operate on 2 AA batteries or 9V we have yet to determine this.

Chris, Jon, I'm thrilled to hear about both projects.
What kind of runtime are you aiming at? Chris, if you're toying with the idea of 2 x AA, this would have to be primary Lithiums in order to crank up the voltage to P48??? Or is it really feasible to do this with 2 x 1,5V NiMH?
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2011, 03:00:54 PM »
Awesome - C.A. and Naiant

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2011, 12:45:31 AM »
 ;D :o ;D

sounds like great news all around!!!

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2011, 01:58:14 AM »
Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

- All front panel controls:  6-pin mini-XLR, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, on/off switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  Basically the same as tinybox but with P48.

- Rear panel input:  2x 3-pin mini-XLRs on rear; front panel:  minijack PIP input, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, low/off/high power switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  This is a littlebox in an extended tinybox case.r

As a Tinybox owner, I definitely like having all the inputs on the front panel.  More convenient for running stealth of course, but I prefer that for running out of a bag also. 

Sound great though, kudos to both Church and Naiant -- what would we do without these great entrepreneurs?  ;D

Offline dactylus

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2011, 04:39:46 PM »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2011, 11:15:06 AM »
...the size of the 9100 preamp with FULL 48 volts and operate on 2 AA batteries or 9V we have yet to determine this.

 Or is it really feasible to do this with 2 x 1,5V NiMH?

Sound Devices MP-2 can do it, so it's doable. 
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.  -FZ

Offline ashevillain

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2011, 09:27:45 AM »
Or is it really feasible to do this with 2 x 1,5V NiMH?

AA NiMH are only 1.2v

AA Alkaline or Lithium are 1.5v

Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2011, 02:55:08 PM »
Maybe expensive, but is a beauty

http://www.audioroot.fr/portable-battery-powered-stereo-microphone-preamp.html

Saludos!
Erick del Valle
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Erick del Valle
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2011, 09:31:36 PM »
how does the stereo xlr work?
split into a dual
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
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Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2011, 09:03:36 AM »
Ground/screen is common for left and right channels, as it use to be. The other 4 pins gives you two differential/balanced channels. It can be split in two 3 pin XLRs.

Roger

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2011, 10:57:06 AM »
Are You talking about the uPRE? the uPRE has unbalanced out in one 3 pin mini xlr (groud, left and right).

Saludos!
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Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2011, 11:30:17 AM »
Sorry, did not see that it has unbalanced outputs! The outputs can be impedance balanced. You will need to know (or measure) the impedance of the outputs. It is not a must or necessary to use a balanced interconnect. What do you want to connect it to?

Roger

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2011, 12:12:12 PM »
i don't want it, i was just wondering
i see it has dual 3pin xlr in and 1 3pin stereo xlr out
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
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Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2011, 02:54:47 PM »
(I guess I have to change my avatar)
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2011, 02:57:02 PM »
(I guess I have to change my avatar)
lol
i stole it from you
i'll change mine if its an problem
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2011, 03:39:07 PM »
no, not really, no problem

Saludos!
Erick del Valle
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Erick del Valle
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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2011, 04:52:36 PM »
That uPre really does have a nice form factor. Would love to hear more about its sonic qualities!

 

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