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Author Topic: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time  (Read 52772 times)

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Offline thegreatgumbino

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2007, 12:54:42 PM »
The signal to noise ratio on the Aerco is very low from my discussions with Jerry.  Additionally, I think Freelunch or Spyder9 ran some tests to verify.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2007, 01:12:47 PM »
The signal to noise ratio on the Aerco is very low from my discussions with Jerry.  Additionally, I think Freelunch or Spyder9 ran some tests to verify.

I am sure the signal to noise ratio is better then the recorders you guys are using. The whole point of a clip light is so that you can get the most amount of gain out of your "quiet" preamp section and reduce the need for gain on your more noisy "recorders" preamp section. So Yes I am sure the preamp is quiet. It should be quiet that's why you guys use preamps in the first place but you can not get the most out of your preamp with out a clip light.

Chris Church
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Offline spyder9

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2007, 01:25:12 PM »
I got a bit of flak for what I said. It was kind of stupid now that I think about it. A product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.. I should have not made a comment on its price but rather the lack of a clip light seems to me to be a basic part of a preamps design. When we are talking about a higher end preamp. I respect this guy he has done some amazing shit. I would love to hear this preamp in action one day. I meant no disrespect. I was making a comment on Function vrs.. Price and I think I could have been just a tad more subtle about it.

Chris Church


I think the lack of a clip light on a variable gain preamp is kind of weak....the psp2 and m148 don't need them due to fixed gain. you could be bricking and have no clue.

The base Aerco has stepped (fixed) gain.  Jerry provides variable gain as part of his custom packages.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 01:30:32 PM by spyder9 »

Offline spyder9

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2007, 01:33:04 PM »
The signal to noise ratio on the Aerco is very low from my discussions with Jerry.  Additionally, I think Freelunch or Spyder9 ran some tests to verify.

Freelunch did the testing, actually.  I was able to finally give mine a run last month.  Here's some recent shows with the Aerco in the chain:

http://www.archive.org/details/umelt2007-02-10.spyder9.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/breakfast2007-02-02.spyder9.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/samkb2007-01-26.spyder9.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/gpgds2007-01-19.spyder9.flac16

« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 06:51:00 PM by spyder9 »

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2007, 01:48:10 PM »
I got a bit of flak for what I said. It was kind of stupid now that I think about it. A product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.. I should have not made a comment on its price but rather the lack of a clip light seems to me to be a basic part of a preamps design. When we are talking about a higher end preamp. I respect this guy he has done some amazing shit. I would love to hear this preamp in action one day. I meant no disrespect. I was making a comment on Function vrs.. Price and I think I could have been just a tad more subtle about it.

Chris Church


I think the lack of a clip light on a variable gain preamp is kind of weak....the psp2 and m148 don't need them due to fixed gain. you could be bricking and have no clue.

The base Aerco has stepped (fixed) gain.  Jerry provides variable gain as part of his custom packages.


Fixed stepped gain still needs a clip light to see where the distortion is at. Because every mic has different sensitivity and not every mic is subjected to the same SPL how would you know when your preamp was overloading? unless you use headphones?
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Offline terrapinj

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2007, 01:50:14 PM »
is there any reason why the PSP-2 clip light comes on +3? seems kinda worthless to me
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2007, 01:57:08 PM »
is there any reason why the PSP-2 clip light comes on +3? seems kinda worthless to me

It could be that the preamp is so good it does not clip until the input drives the output to +3db. That's a good preamp design! I would assume that is why you clip light comes on so late. And that's a good thing.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2007, 08:02:36 AM »
chris...let me quote one of the great lines of Hollyweird:

"if you build it, they will come"

LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2007, 10:34:15 AM »
is there any reason why the PSP-2 clip light comes on +3? seems kinda worthless to me

Because it is French!


lol!
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Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2007, 10:41:46 AM »
chris...let me quote one of the great lines of Hollyweird:

"if you build it, they will come"



I will have something by the end of this year.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2007, 11:09:58 AM »
I will have something by the end of this year.

I'd buy a kit right now that included the parts to make one of the jensen reference designs.. that mouser catalog is just too damn heavy to lift when I'm sitting on the can.

Thinking aloud here... (nice to be off the post tooth extraction vicodin!)

I think one gotcha you need to watch out for is claims of copying.. Nobody wants to be accused of that.. the trouble is, these preamps are really quite simple (except for the aerco 48v circuit, that's some special sauce!) and there are only so many ways to build them (or so it seems from my couch). You want it to be clear to everyone that this is your design and not a copy of an 148 or aerco.  Of course Doug knows there is demand for the 148 that he cannot fill.  Maybe he'd license the design to you and everyone would be very happy?  Maybe the price could even come down (because it is very high given the contents).  Seems like that would be good for everyone.

One thing about Doug.. He has insanely high end playback.  So his ability to evaluate the true sonic characteristics of these designs is beyond many folks here.  So perhaps the 148 price is justified from the cost and time of that r&d.  I haven't owned or run one but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 148 sound didn't happen by accident or luck..

I could post the rmod/nbox schematic here and everyone with significant assembly skills could copy it. I'll bet I could have it built in china for cheap.  But would Nick, who is also a serious taper, continue to support his customers like he does?  Probably not. And that support is critical. Hence, no schematic.  When producing a new preamp, I think it needs to be more than "cheaper"..  Undercutting the prices with a clip light also isn't enough....

As an aside.. My aerco gets gain from the op-amp and not the transformer. I know there is a version that gets 20dB from the transformer. The aerco is a very quiet preamp at any gain setting.. but when you run it at 0dB gain it is Super quiet because it bypasses most everything..  So that makes me wonder just how quiet a version that gets 20dB from the transformer could be.. But I also wonder what the sonic downsides to that are...

Sorry for getting off topic in what is pretty much our "team aerco" thread.. We had a good DIY 148 thread going.. Maybe that would be a better place to discuss the wish list and pitfalls?

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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2007, 11:15:52 AM »
I will have something by the end of this year.

I'd buy a kit right now that included the parts to make one of the jensen reference designs.. that mouser catalog is just too damn heavy to lift when I'm sitting on the can.

Thinking aloud here... (nice to be off the post tooth extraction vicodin!)

I think one gotcha you need to watch out for is claims of copying.. Nobody wants to be accused of that.. the trouble is, these preamps are really quite simple (except for the aerco 48v circuit, that's some special sauce!) and there are only so many ways to build them (or so it seems from my couch). You want it to be clear to everyone that this is your design and not a copy of an 148 or aerco.  Of course Doug knows there is demand for the 148 that he cannot fill.  Maybe he'd license the design to you and everyone would be very happy?  Maybe the price could even come down (because it is very high given the contents).  Seems like that would be good for everyone.

One thing about Doug.. He has insanely high end playback.  So his ability to evaluate the true sonic characteristics of these designs is beyond many folks here.  So perhaps the 148 price is justified from the cost and time of that r&d.  I haven't owned or run one but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 148 sound didn't happen by accident or luck..

I could post the rmod/nbox schematic here and everyone with significant assembly skills could copy it. I'll bet I could have it built in china for cheap.  But would Nick, who is also a serious taper, continue to support his customers like he does?  Probably not. And that support is critical. Hence, no schematic.  When producing a new preamp, I think it needs to be more than "cheaper"..  Undercutting the prices with a clip light also isn't enough....

As an aside.. My aerco gets gain from the op-amp and not the transformer. I know there is a version that gets 20dB from the transformer. The aerco is a very quiet preamp at any gain setting.. but when you run it at 0dB gain it is Super quiet because it bypasses most everything..  So that makes me wonder just how quiet a version that gets 20dB from the transformer could be.. But I also wonder what the sonic downsides to that are...

Sorry for getting off topic in what is pretty much our "team aerco" thread.. We had a good DIY 148 thread going.. Maybe that would be a better place to discuss the wish list and pitfalls?


I will not be copying anyone :) I already have my design. It will be a st-9100 with a transformer front end. My only challenge will be putting in phantom with 3 x 9 volt batteries and making it work.
I would never copy these guys. They make a great product. And I respect that. Most of my gain will come from the transformer it self. Then I will have a very simple but very linear  back end to amplify what the transformer is doing.
I have to figure a few more things out I will have a prototype to float around in the next 6 months. That's my goal.
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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2007, 05:33:31 PM »
I like the minimal signal chain approach.  the pure 48v phantom in the brick (as supplied by 8 small 6v SLAs) is the shit.
short path..straight to FAT jensen transformers..and viola!
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Offline gratefulphish

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2007, 05:38:07 PM »
I will not be copying anyone :) I already have my design. It will be a st-9100 with a transformer front end. My only challenge will be putting in phantom with 3 x 9 volt batteries and making it work.
I would never copy these guys. They make a great product. And I respect that. Most of my gain will come from the transformer it self. Then I will have a very simple but very linear  back end to amplify what the transformer is doing.
I have to figure a few more things out I will have a prototype to float around in the next 6 months. That's my goal.


Chris, If I might make a suggestion, most people are willing to deal with external power, in an effort to minimize the size of the box.  Could you make a smaller external power only version, and then make one, with the three 9V, side-by-side, that could mount on the outside of the box, or inside a slightly larger housing?
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Aerco MP-2 Information > $750 new & 1 Month Lead Time
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2007, 06:19:36 PM »
I will not be copying anyone :) I already have my design. It will be a st-9100 with a transformer front end. My only challenge will be putting in phantom with 3 x 9 volt batteries and making it work.
I would never copy these guys. They make a great product. And I respect that. Most of my gain will come from the transformer it self. Then I will have a very simple but very linear  back end to amplify what the transformer is doing.
I have to figure a few more things out I will have a prototype to float around in the next 6 months. That's my goal.


Chris, If I might make a suggestion, most people are willing to deal with external power, in an effort to minimize the size of the box.  Could you make a smaller external power only version, and then make one, with the three 9V, side-by-side, that could mount on the outside of the box, or inside a slightly larger housing?

To be very honest I would rather have an external power supply. Then I can make the preamp very small..
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