Topic: Denecke AD-20 .vs. internal JB3 AD

[mmadd29]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

[cgrooves]

I haven't run the JB3's internal AD, but I have run the h1xx series internal AD (which has been reported as the same).  I doubt that anyone here will tell you that the internal AD on the JB3 is better than the AD20.  Although I run my digi mod UA5 99% of the time, it is mainly due to the ease of an all in one box.  I really like my AD20 because it gives a nice warm sound, IMO.  Keep in mind that the AD20 is a pre / AD combo that has a minimum of 17db gain (verify this, but I'm 99% sure).  I think you would need to drop the ST-9100 out of the chain and maybe use it for your stealth rig.  I think the overall concensus would be that to get the most noticeable listening change out of the gear chain, it would involve changing the mic's.

[mmadd29]

I haven't run the JB3's internal AD, but I have run the h1xx series internal AD (which has been reported as the same).  I doubt that anyone here will tell you that the internal AD on the JB3 is better than the AD20.  Although I run my digi mod UA5 99% of the time, it is mainly due to the ease of an all in one box.  I really like my AD20 because it gives a nice warm sound, IMO.  Keep in mind that the AD20 is a pre / AD combo that has a minimum of 17db gain (verify this, but I'm 99% sure).  I think you would need to drop the ST-9100 out of the chain and maybe use it for your stealth rig.  I think the overall concensus would be that to get the most noticeable listening change out of the gear chain, it would involve changing the mic's.

I quite certain the same that nobody would recommend the JB3 over the AD-20, what I'm really trying to gague is how much of an improvement it is in playback.  You did answer the other question I was wondering, that the ST-9100 could be dropped from the chain   

Thanks +t

[cgrooves]

Back-atcha.

I think it would be a noticeable improvement (at least based on my ears) to go to the AD20.  I would almost think of it as a no-brainer if you could help fund the AD20 purchase by selling the ST-9100.  There seems to be a good demand for those pre's, and I've only heard good things about them.  They just appear to show up more in stealth rig chains, where the AD20 shows up in stealth & open rig chains.

[Church-Audio]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

Your not using balanced mics with my preamp are you? Do you run a phantom adaptor after your mics then into my preamp? My preamp was never designed to drive a 150ohm low impedence microphone input how is it working for you?

[mmadd29]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

Your not using balanced mics with my preamp are you? Do you run a phantom adaptor after your mics then into my preamp? My preamp was never designed to drive a 150ohm low impedence microphone input how is it working for you?

Chris,

I'm not using balanced mics...I think.  I do run phantom after the mics, to your preamp...Art II.....the preamp is great, it drives my input up nice and high.....never had a problem with distortion or anything....the pre has been great, never had a bad recording yet with it,  about 60 or so shows.

[Church-Audio]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

Your not using balanced mics with my preamp are you? Do you run a phantom adaptor after your mics then into my preamp? My preamp was never designed to drive a 150ohm low impedence microphone input how is it working for you?

Chris,

I'm not using balanced mics...I think.  I do run phantom after the mics, to your preamp...Art II.....the preamp is great, it drives my input up nice and high.....never had a problem with distortion or anything....the pre has been great, never had a bad recording yet with it,  about 60 or so shows.

I am pretty sure that they are balanced what is the model number?

[mmadd29]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

Your not using balanced mics with my preamp are you? Do you run a phantom adaptor after your mics then into my preamp? My preamp was never designed to drive a 150ohm low impedence microphone input how is it working for you?

Chris,

I'm not using balanced mics...I think.  I do run phantom after the mics, to your preamp...Art II.....the preamp is great, it drives my input up nice and high.....never had a problem with distortion or anything....the pre has been great, never had a bad recording yet with it,  about 60 or so shows.

I am pretty sure that they are balanced what is the model number?

Superlux CM-H8K series

[Church-Audio]

I'm looking to improve open setup rig.  I'm currently using  Superlux mics > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp > JB3.  My next logical move is to get an AD.  I'm looking at the Denecke AD-20, and wondering how much of an improvement is that over the internal AD of the JB3.  When I say improvement I mean in noticeable listening. 

How many other people use the JB3 and the AD-20, what what has been your experience?

Thanks

Your not using balanced mics with my preamp are you? Do you run a phantom adaptor after your mics then into my preamp? My preamp was never designed to drive a 150ohm low impedence microphone input how is it working for you?

Chris,

I'm not using balanced mics...I think.  I do run phantom after the mics, to your preamp...Art II.....the preamp is great, it drives my input up nice and high.....never had a problem with distortion or anything....the pre has been great, never had a bad recording yet with it,  about 60 or so shows.

I am pretty sure that they are balanced what is the model number?

Superlux CM-H8K series

Ok for sure these mics are 100% not compatible with my preamp in any way what so ever. Even though your using a phantom adaptor its still low impedance balanced output connecting to a high impedance unbalanced input of my preamp.. It was never designed to do this.

[mmadd29]

What kind of input is on an AD-20?

[cgrooves]

What kind of input is on an AD-20?

Taken from Core Sound's website:
"On the bottom of the AD-20 are the dual XLR balanced microphone inputs. We offer an optional cable to convert unbalanced 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo miniplugs (standard on our Core Sound microphones) to two XLRs."

[jeromejello]

something to keep in mind.  even though the ad-20 is considered a pre by many, the fact is that unless it is the modded version, it does not provide plug in power to the mics.

therefore you would need either a phantom power source (eg ps-2) or a battery box of the 2 or 3 wire variety.  your choice to power the mic will be based on what you mic requires.

[mmadd29]

something to keep in mind.  even though the ad-20 is considered a pre by many, the fact is that unless it is the modded version, it does not provide plug in power to the mics.

therefore you would need either a phantom power source (eg ps-2) or a battery box of the 2 or 3 wire variety.  your choice to power the mic will be based on what you mic requires.

Already have a few ART II phantom power boxes so I guess that would work.....something like:

Superlux > Art II > AD-20 > JB3

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

something to keep in mind.  even though the ad-20 is considered a pre by many, the fact is that unless it is the modded version, it does not provide plug in power to the mics.

therefore you would need either a phantom power source (eg ps-2) or a battery box of the 2 or 3 wire variety.  your choice to power the mic will be based on what you mic requires.

Already have a few ART II phantom power boxes so I guess that would work.....something like:

Superlux > Art II > AD-20 > JB3

I  saw where someone had issues with the ART IIs:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79514.msg1057753.html#msg1057753

But you have the right idea.  You'll need something that powers your mics and provide output into the preamp part of the AD20. 

T
 

[cgrooves]

I  saw where someone had issues with the ART IIs:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79514.msg1057753.html#msg1057753

But you have the right idea.  You'll need something that powers your mics and provide output into the preamp part of the AD20. 

T

I'm thinking the only 'issue' was that they didn't use good batteries.  FWIW, I have never had a problem with my ART II.  Typically would last several shows on a pair of alkalines.  It seems that mmadd29 has been using the ART boxes for some time now anyway. 

Just stopped back by to let mmadd29 know that there is an AD20 in the yard sale for an awesome price.  Cheaper than I've ever seen one go for: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,78421.0.html

[mmadd29]

something to keep in mind.  even though the ad-20 is considered a pre by many, the fact is that unless it is the modded version, it does not provide plug in power to the mics.

therefore you would need either a phantom power source (eg ps-2) or a battery box of the 2 or 3 wire variety.  your choice to power the mic will be based on what you mic requires.

Already have a few ART II phantom power boxes so I guess that would work.....something like:

Superlux > Art II > AD-20 > JB3

I  saw where someone had issues with the ART IIs:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79514.msg1057753.html#msg1057753

But you have the right idea.  You'll need something that powers your mics and provide output into the preamp part of the AD20. 

T
 

This is true...I blew a rectifer in one of the ART II this is why I have three...but after replacing I noticed it only put out 43.5 volts....so I checked the other two, and they also put out 43.5 volts....now I have never had a problem...but wonder what the difference between this supply and one that puts out a full 48v....??

[cgrooves]

This is true...I blew a rectifer in one of the ART II this is why I have three...but after replacing I noticed it only put out 43.5 volts....so I checked the other two, and they also put out 43.5 volts....now I have never had a problem...but wonder what the difference between this supply and one that puts out a full 48v....??

My AT's only operate on approx. 9v anyway, so I have never worried about it.  I use a UA5 99% of the time now, but still have the ART box.

[shayne]

I think the ad-20 is a great pre- just has limitations,  no phantom, no one does mods, no ability to do matrix,  I ran oktava mc012 > rolls pb224>ad20>jb3,  and I have tapes that I enjoy from my ad-20 better than my t+ mod ua-5 with that being said the ua-5 was more clear but thinner sounding and not as warm. Maybe it was the pa that day but I really enjoyed using the ad20 just watch that gain, I always ran 10 db pads on the mics after one bad experience.

[Javier Cinakowski]

modded UA5's are so cheap right now, that I dont see how you could go wrong.  The UA5 I like much more than the deneke.  I would sell one of my UA5's for darn cheap compaired to a AD20

[mmadd29]

With a UA5, I could also ditch the phantom power box, and I would think that the UA5 would put out closer to 48 volts, in which my ART II boxes put of 43.5 volts.  Would also sovle the AD issue...not sure about the pre....

How much do modded UA5's go for....ballpark figure.

[Javier Cinakowski]

$200-500

depending on the type of mod and accessories (batteries, cables, etc...)

I would estimate:
stock UA5 = $125-150
DIY digi mod = $150-200
bm2+ = $200
bm2p+ = $250-$300
Oade p,t,w-mod = $350
Oade +mods = $400-500

[mmadd29]

$200-500

depending on the type of mod and accessories (batteries, cables, etc...)

I would estimate:
stock UA5 = $125-150
DIY digi mod = $150-200
bm2+ = $200
bm2p+ = $250-$300
Oade p,t,w-mod = $350
Oade +mods = $400-500

Excuse me for being an idiot....

If I got a modded UA5...isn't that all I need?

I'm not counting cables and a power source....I know I would need that

[Javier Cinakowski]

yep the modded UA5 is a standalone preamp, phantom supply and ADC! 

The only other accessories would be :

Mics
Recorder with digital input
xlr mic cable
battery/cable to power UA5

[mmadd29]

yep the modded UA5 is a standalone preamp, phantom supply and ADC! 

The only other accessories would be :

Mics
Recorder with digital input
xlr mic cable
battery/cable to power UA5

I see...I have a JB3 so that is a go, and mics and cables......so I modded UA5 goes around $200?

[Javier Cinakowski]

Yep, you could get a digi mod UA5 for $200 for sure.  They sound just fine.  The flavored mods (oade t,w,p) sound a bit better.  The best value is the bm2p+ mod, it could be bought for like $300...

The only mod that is nessesary is the digi mod.  This allows the UA5 to opperate independent of a computer.  Without the digi mod you must plug the UA5 into the USB port of a computer.  The digi mod is included on all of the Oade and busman(bm2p+) mods