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Author Topic: Greetings... my new mic preamp.  (Read 92705 times)

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Offline muj

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2008, 06:28:10 AM »

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2008, 12:07:19 PM »
Okay, so I drilled some holes on the front panel to install the brackets... I want to see how much available space I'll have left.



Start laying out the PCB dimensions and cutouts, I'll use a double-sided PCB, and it will have (2) levels... a bigger "motherboard" and a small "switchboard" elevated on top.  Then I realize, man, I have so much wasted space on the backend of the PCB. What can I put on there?

And then I had a flash of inspiration... check it out. See those (2) silver cans?  ;D

XLRs on the back


XLRs on the side


The unit will have (2) DC jacks (see the 1st sketch)... a normal DC jack (for wall warts), and a Switchcraft locking DC jack.  Both jacks can be used in parallel if needed... i.e. say you have 2 battery packs, and want to replace batteries without unplugging the first jack. The (2) jacks have different dimensions for the pins.. 2.5mm and 2.1mm.

And yup... I'll use a 12-step gain switch (6dB per step) AND a trim knob.
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stirinthesauce

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2008, 12:11:45 PM »
+t

Offline halleyscomet8

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2008, 12:34:13 PM »
+t

this thing looks nice. are those the full size xlr's in the "on the side" sketch? this is very exciting to watch you create from scratch.
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Offline OOK

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2008, 01:15:32 PM »






mmmmmmmmm....nice warm lundahl.......like hot chocolate on a snowy day.......OOK
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Offline bugg100

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2008, 05:00:01 PM »
Front panel monitor jack? That would. Need a level control.
Unbalanced out (1/8" stereo) on front panel?

With the main/daughter boards, is there still room on the front for the VU board? Could the mono VU switch between channels via switch and have signal (-24?) And pre peak (-3dB?) for Both channels?  Otherwise VU should be stereo, right?

Thanks for taking suggestions!

Joe

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2008, 05:31:15 PM »
+t

this thing looks nice. are those the full size xlr's in the "on the side" sketch? this is very exciting to watch you create from scratch.

Me too.  I love watching this whole process.  Best of luck with it...

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2008, 05:57:32 PM »
halleyscomet8

On the photos, yes, those are full size XLRs.  I'm still waiting for my order of mini-XLRs and may use them instead (as  Option 2). 


bugg100

>> Unbalanced out (1/8" stereo) on front panel?

Hmmmm... may be possible if I can find space for a PCB mount jack, probably... no promises.

>Front panel monitor jack that would need a level control.

Sorry, no more space for the knob/pot on the right side of the front panel.


Quote
With the main/daughter boards, is there still room on the front for the VU board? Could the mono VU switch between channels via switch and have signal (-24?) And pre peak (-3dB?) for Both channels?  Otherwise VU should be stereo, right?

Hmmm.... that's a good idea. A 3-way switch, switch to the left to monitor VU for the left channel, switch to the right to monitor the right channel, and switch to the middle to turn off VU meter and save battery.  And there's plenty of space on the dautherboard for that too...

I'll be able to answer this a definite YES or NO when I get the first prototype PCBs made, to see how tight it will be.


illconditioned and halleyscomet8

Thanks!

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Offline Rick

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2008, 06:07:08 PM »

On the photos, yes, those are full size XLRs.  I'm still waiting for my order of mini-XLRs and may use them instead (as  Option 2). 


Is there really any advantage of using mini-XLRs over regular XLRs? Space doesn't seem to be an issue on the back or the sides. Most people would probably prefer regular XLRs. Now if you wanted to really reduce the size of the box then I could see using mini-XLRs

Rick
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Offline Rick

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2008, 06:19:48 PM »
I'll throw my .02 in

Keep it simple and keep the cost down.

XLRs IN and Out (Maybe 1/8 or RCAs out)
6db stepped gain (most of us use recorders that can fine tune the levels)
Simple UV levels (3 or 4 meters - 24db,12db, 6db and 3db)
Power Switch

Trim Knobs, 10db pad and Clip Indicators would be nice too :)

If it sounds good and its reasonably priced, people will buy it.
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Offline digifish_music

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2008, 07:11:41 PM »


Indeed...here's the inside of a MixPre :)

- What's this knob do?

Offline halleyscomet8

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2008, 02:51:20 AM »
I'll throw my .02 in

Keep it simple and keep the cost down.

XLRs IN and Out (Maybe 1/8 or RCAs out)
6db stepped gain (most of us use recorders that can fine tune the levels)
Simple UV levels (3 or 4 meters - 24db,12db, 6db and 3db)
Power Switch

Trim Knobs, 10db pad and Clip Indicators would be nice too :)

If it sounds good and its reasonably priced, people will buy it.

i agree with this spot on. if space was an issue, i would understand the mini xlr's. but, i would prefer standard ones. meters are not that big of an issue, but sure are nice to stare at ;) stepped gain is fine also. i do like the idea of a power on light, and a peak light.
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Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2008, 04:12:26 PM »


Right now, the case I've chosen has ridges that prevents manual drilling of the mounting holes of a regular size XLR accurately.  Using a mini-XLR will eliminate that problem.

But I do agree that is is more expensive. It's 3X more expensive!

I've thought of a solution of making a drill jig that will wrap the case and serve as a drill guide for the XLR holes, so the drill bit will not move or slide around. I'll test this solution, and if it works, then I'll be able to provide full-size XLR jacks on the sides... at just a minor bump in price for the additional manual labor involved.

I talked to the factory and unfortunately, they cannot do custom mods for the cases. So that means, I'll be the ones doing the case drilling.

Also, I just thought of an issue with these board designs (above and below)...


I need some kind of support at the backend of the PCB to hold the weight of those 2 transformers.
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2008, 11:39:34 AM »
wow just saw this thread
looks sweet
+T

i would agree thought that reg size xlr is a plus
i see the box you are using doesn't work right for them but if i was looking at buying something and i knew i had to get new cables or mod the ones i have that would play big time into if i got it or not
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline fivefishdiy

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9V Battery Testing
« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2008, 02:12:33 AM »
I decided to test my pre, powered by a 9V battery. 

NOTE:
I'm testing the pre without any optimization. Basically, I took the preamp designed for use with a 12VDC wall wart, and hooked it up straight to a 9V Battery.

This is the battery I used (bought at a grocery store). Duracell Coppertop 9V battery... costs about $10 for the pair, or $5 each.



CURRENTLY: The preamp is not optimized yet for battery use. Basically, the 48VDC-DC converter is running all the time even if phantom power isn't used. The PSU has an on-board LED mounted inside the case (that no one can see, it just serves as a reminder for me that there is input power)... the LED resistor value is low, so the LED consumes 5mA, the VU meter is running and operating... again with the LEDs using 5mA (low R value), the preamp is using DC servo instead of AC coupling. Again, these were things that didn't matter back then when I'm using a wall wart or a power transformer.

TO DO/FUTURE:  To optimize the pre for future battery operation, I need to modify the phantom power switch so that it turns ON the 12V to 48V DC-DC converter only when phantom power is needed... instead of being ON all the time. I need to reduce LED consumption from 5mA to under 2mA... from my testing, the brightness is still good at less than half the consumption. I need to remove one of the opamp chips on the board and let the preamp run using AC coupling, instead of DC servo. That reduces chip count by one. (Or provide a switch so the user can toggle between DC Servo/AC Coupling.)

Again, typically... I expect to see a 12Volts input. But in this scenario, we'll just use an ordinary 9V battery.



We start at 9.1 Volts out of the box, hooked it up to the preamp with all the LED lights blazing, and VU Meters dancing.  I used music material, and a movie material with lots of bass and explosions (Transformers :))  The VU meters got a real workout.

Total Running Time on a 9V Duracell battery: 225 minutes  (or 3.75 hrs)

After that, the preamp shut down and stopped, i.e. no sound can be heard. Prior to that, even at 224 minutes, there is still full sound.

Power Consumption did not change whether the gain is at 6dB or higher. It's constant.  However, the VU Meters with the bright LEDs, consume a lot of power (5mA per LED). Phantom Power is off on this quick and dirty testing. Single channel testing only.

As you can see from the graph, voltage was falling at a steady rate. And even when the 9V Duracell battery was only giving less than 7Volts, we still got 36 minutes operation out of the preamp (with all the VU meter LEDs running, etc).

ADDENDUM:  When the pre shut down, I disconnected the 9V battery and let it rest for 15 minutes. Battery voltage climbed up from 6.5V to just a little over 7 Volts. Then I hooked it up again to the preamp and we got another 30 minutes life out of it.... then it shut down. 

Rest the 9V battery for 10 minutes, and we got another 20 minutes operation out of it.

At this point I concluded my testing.

The current consumption ranges from 109 to 117mA. I'm a little surprised about this, since the preamp board is supposed to use only 17mA... and add 5mA for the PSU LED. I don't know how much the VU meter consumes though. It depends on the program material, and on how many of the 5 LEDs are lit up at any given time.  Also, the (2) onboard DC-DC converter have a set minimum power consumption for it to operate.  So add all those up, you get 109 to 117mA.   Adding a second preamp channel shouldn't increase much power consumption, but adding a 2nd VU meter will. 

I *think* I will ditch the VU Meter function and opt instead to use a signal and over/clipping indicator, using low-power opamps to do the job. Hmmmm.....

Also, just to put things in perspective... we're converting this ordinary Duracell 9 Volts input (down to 6.5 Volts) internally to a HIGHER split +/- voltages and even +48Volts.

You can't create a higher voltage from nothing, so the current consumption increases as the voltage falls down to maintain the same power equation... you know, Power = Volts x Current

In this case, total power consumption was less than 1 Watt the whole time!  Ranging from 0.91Watts to 0.75 Watts.

In field use, most likely you'd probably be using a higher capacity battery (and not a 9V toy battery)... like a Li-Ion with 6800mAh, and not the puny 580mAh of a toy battery. I think it will be safe to say that you'll be able to tape concerts several hours long. 

Until next time....



« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 12:19:20 PM by fivefishdiy »
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