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Author Topic: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?  (Read 18410 times)

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Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2010, 05:52:39 AM »
Shadow_7, I think it would be great if preamps that are deficient in terms of frequency response, phantom powering, input impedance, etc. weren't bought by anyone. But my point is that then, pretty much all remaining preamps would sound alike. The same is definitely not true of microphones--so I don't think that it pays to be more interested in preamps than, say, in microphones. With preamps it's more or less like, "you have to be this tall to ride" whereas microphones and different ways of using them are like all the different rides that you get to go on.

--best regards

Agreed, unfortunately the preamps that qualify are almost exclusively in that $1,000+, maybe even $2,000+ range.  I'm trying to stick to a budget, the high end of which is $3,000 for mics, $1,000 for preamps($500 per channel), $10,000 for pro video (to include all accessories and back end needed to use it).  i.e. I'm not wanting to spend more on recording gear than I spent on my car.  And those figures are long term goals.  And the goal is not to spend that cash, but to have the equivalent value in gear.  Right now I sit at about $1,000 in a field recorder, $500 in mics, soon to be $600 in external preamps.  And probably $500 in accessories (mic stands + boom arms, cables, T bars, various *pods for video, .....).  And $400 for a Sanyo FH1, but I'd hardly call that pro video.  Although still impressive for the cash.

Unfortunately battery powered preamp options are limited.  At least those that run on traditional batteries (AAs, 9Vs, D, C, ....).  In the sub $1K range 2x MP-1 don't appear to be too hideous.  And in terms of bulk in a mobile kit, they're almost cute.  According to specs alone I gain a couple hours of phantom power.  And I gain a usable limiter, not that I plan on running things at a level that activates the limiter, but it adds a certain piece of mind knowing that it's there and probably wont suck.  Since I plan on running video at the same time leaving the audio (outside of the initial level setting) on auto pilot. 

I'd probably be happier with a V3, but that's twice the price and I don't currently have that budget.  And there's a lot of extras (fluff) that I don't need in that unit.  A naiant littlebox would more than likely meet my current needs, but I like having headroom and options.  i.e. long term goals, some parameters of which may still be unknown.  For the moment it's geared towards middle of a corn field, any weather condition recording.  Targeting 3+ hours continuous sessions per set of batteries.  Right now I only get about 2 hours.

Ultimately I'll probably run a battery plus inverter and have some sort of rack / toolbox setup.  But I'm not there yet.  And if there's a more survivor man mobile option, I'm game.  Not that parades are all that interesting, but it'd be nice to have a full A/V kit that one could march in a parade.  Without tripping on cords, having to stop in the middle and swap batteries, and otherwise knocking mounted police off their horses while trying to manuever through crowds.  But still having PRO-ish quality gear.  I know, it's not a normal goal.  And I'm finding that I'm having to DIY a lot more than I ever expected to.  Windscreens thick enough for conditions in my region.  Monopod mounted to an over the shoulder camera rig to cut down on Z-axis yaw and to lighten the load while still being able to record from stadium bleachers.  I'm probably looking at a mic zeppelin with solid water diverting roof eventually and other if this happens, so what, measures.  Eventually....

Offline DSatz

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2010, 06:19:12 AM »
The Sound Devices preamps are first-rate; if for some reason I had to use a preamp of theirs instead of my V3, I would consider it a lateral move rather than a downward one. That's particularly true since my main mikes these days are Schoeps CMC 6--, and phantom powering for those is twice as efficient when 12-Volt phantom is used--very nice for battery operation.

Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2010, 10:47:26 AM »
Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.

I've tossed that back and forth a lot.  And trust me, IF the 2 channel unit used 4x AAs, instead of 2x, I'd be all over it.  As I wonder about battery life at full 48V, much less having true 48V phantom power on 2x for 2 channels versus 2x for one channel (x2).  The MP-1 just seems like the safer bet at this point.  And thinking forward a bit, sometimes selling two relatively cheap units is a bit easier than selling one high dollar unit.

Offline Kindguy

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2010, 03:31:38 AM »
No mention of a Apogee Mini Me? Nice preamp with top notch AD converter. For about 500 bucks.

IMO a way better choice than a V3. I assume your running digital in on the korg.

jeff

EDIT: Nevermind I see the korg has no digital in. Really surprised by that....





« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 03:35:22 AM by Kindguy »
TDS!

DPA 4023> aeta PSP-2> Apogee Mini Me > R-44

http://www.basicallyfrightened.com/

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2010, 05:19:28 AM »
You could also see about having a cable made for an MP-2 or MixPre to connect an external battery. I haven't read about anyone doing it here because it uses a 4 pin Hirose connector, but set up that way it should run longer than 2 MP-1's and be more convenient to use.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline datbrad

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2010, 03:55:35 PM »
Something to consider: A two-channel Sound Devices preamp with an outboard phantom power supply rather than two separate single-channel preamps would still be just two boxes, but it might give you more convenient operation.

I've tossed that back and forth a lot.  And trust me, IF the 2 channel unit used 4x AAs, instead of 2x, I'd be all over it.  As I wonder about battery life at full 48V, much less having true 48V phantom power on 2x for 2 channels versus 2x for one channel (x2).  The MP-1 just seems like the safer bet at this point.  And thinking forward a bit, sometimes selling two relatively cheap units is a bit easier than selling one high dollar unit.

I have been running a pair of Sound Devices MP-1 preamps now for about 5 years, and simply love them. The battery life is 5+ hours with 48V phantom, and they are clean and clear sounding to my ears. One of the main selling points to me was the long internal AA battery life.

Here is a link to my post in the kickdown of my source of Furthur from Hampton, VA last month. Not really your application, but a good example to me of how good these preamps are. It's also posted on the LMA if you don't do torrents. Just make sure to download the flac files for a true sense of their quality.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132187.0

Good luck!!!



AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline notlance

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2010, 05:10:07 PM »
You could also see about having a cable made for an MP-2 or MixPre to connect an external battery. I haven't read about anyone doing it here because it uses a 4 pin Hirose connector, but set up that way it should run longer than 2 MP-1's and be more convenient to use.

The MP-2 uses a locking co-axial power connector rather than the Hirose, but you make a good point.  A MixPre with an external power supply seems to fit your requirements.  Even if your primary power source is the internal batteries, having the external source allows you to swap out the internal batteries without interrupting recording.  Since the MixPre will run off of as little as 5V external, a simple 4 AA battery holder soldered to a Hirose connector will give you plenty of power and time to swap the internal batteries.

The biggest problem is soldering to the Hirose connector.  It has 4 tiny pins with little space between them.  You can't connect very large wires to them, but you don't need big wires.  It helps to have a new tip on your iron, and for my old eyes a magnifier.  Or you can pay some young whippersnapper to make you a cable.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2010, 06:38:38 PM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132187.0

Holy seeder batman!!!  I just got broadband (or as close to it as I can in the country) on wednesday this week (yesterday).  Some sort of microwave radio / wifi thing.  When I first started that torrent - 350Kbps.  Although it seems to have averaged out to 110+Kbps.  My old connection (dialup) was about 3.5Kbps on average for a comparison.  Most everything else on this new connection runs about 50Kbps - 100Kbps.  Anyway, glad for some sort of a reference.

If all goes well, I should be sporting two new MP-1 units by the end of next week.  And yes the battery run times are a big part of that consideration (5+ hours).  Hopefully having the 48V burden off of the Korg, will yield 3+ hours on that unit.  And solve a few of the other known issues with said unit(limiter + hot gain + low end + ???).  A pretty nice unit even with issues, but always nice to maximize potential.  I might regret selling my studio monitors now.  Just one of those things.  Drew too much power, never used them enough to justify their idle asset costs, and other sell them while they're still worth something concerns.  I've still got some magnepans, but they don't have the same low end abilities.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2010, 10:31:30 PM »
Nice recordings.  Pretty much what I'm after, in terms of audience perspective ambience.  Slightly different genre, but similar in most respects.  Couldn't find 461's on AKG's website.  451's, yes.  MKH 8020's still looking good on my end (just not in the budget this year (or next)).  Avenson STO-2's the current beast of sorts.  Very similar to your source, but maybe a higher noise floor.  And not exactly stealthy, but not bulky either.  Sentimental value either way.  Made in Austin.  Spider Brace 2 also made in Austin.  The stuff I find out AFTER diving in for a swim.  Busman BSC1's looking interesting, but SPL limits perhaps a bit low for my needs.  Fine with distance and outdoors.  But indoors, same source... who knows.  Can't wait to try out the different preamps and see what is / is not different.  Anything like your clips and goodness is likely.

Offline datbrad

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2010, 10:06:29 AM »
Nice recordings.  Pretty much what I'm after, in terms of audience perspective ambience.  Slightly different genre, but similar in most respects.  Couldn't find 461's on AKG's website.  451's, yes.  MKH 8020's still looking good on my end (just not in the budget this year (or next)).  Avenson STO-2's the current beast of sorts.  Very similar to your source, but maybe a higher noise floor.  And not exactly stealthy, but not bulky either.  Sentimental value either way.  Made in Austin.  Spider Brace 2 also made in Austin.  The stuff I find out AFTER diving in for a swim.  Busman BSC1's looking interesting, but SPL limits perhaps a bit low for my needs.  Fine with distance and outdoors.  But indoors, same source... who knows.  Can't wait to try out the different preamps and see what is / is not different.  Anything like your clips and goodness is likely.

Watch the yardsale. You will see CK6x series caps offered, as well as both 460 and 480 amplifier bodies used with them for sale regularly.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2010, 12:33:46 PM »
Amplifier body, well that might explain why I couldn't find it under mics.  I've been bouncing back and forth between those clips and some I've made (different genre) with my STO-2's.  Seems like a lateral move to me.  Which I've tried before, and didn't accomplish anything outside of tying up $400 for a few months and loosing $20 on the resale.  Despite all of the STO-2's faults, they are by far the most forgiving set of mics I've ever owned.  A bit of a power hog, but relatively immune to high SPL, handling noise, abuse, and near impossible to aim badly(OMNI).  Which is useful when you have them hidden in a big ball of DIY windscreen furs.

Battery life is important, only because I'm using a field recorder with built in preamps.  In terms of functionality, I'm not gaining anything.  And without the battery life thing, that's a real possibility, since I don't yet know if the MP-1 is better or not.  It should be, if only by having a better lmiter.  But I at a minimum gain a few minutes of life on a charge.  And hopefully a lot more.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2010, 10:36:48 PM »
The order came in monday, I picked them up today.  I guess I got confused as the MP-1 .pdf reference seemed to use MM-1 on certain parts of certain pages.  So when MM-1 was what I got I didn't think much about it figuring it's the same product.  But it's not.  The MM-1 has a lot more things on it.  I guess I shouldn't complain since it has everything that the MP-1 has and more(at first glance).  But what does that do to battery life?  And other concerns about what else is different between units inside, and which is better?  If they are the same/better then I got a good deal.  If not then WTF, how hard is it to cut and paste a product name out of an email?  It does look like a gift horse of sorts, but do I shred the shrink wrap or play it safe?

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2010, 06:20:41 AM »
It looks like they're functionally identical.  Spec wise it appears on the surface that the MM-1 only gets 5/6ths of the battery life expectancy of the MP-1.  80% of 5 hours is still a good 4 hours, so within tollerances.  Targeting 3.5 hours.  I'll probably swap batteries around 2 hours anyway.  That was some of the toughest shrink wrap I've ever tried to cut through.

First impressions.  Wow!  Definitely a step up from the Korgs built in preamps.  That low end I've been trying to EQ to make happen.  Well, that might just be one less thing to do in post.  And noise floor...  What noise floor?  Just a simple pea shooter trombone sampling so far.  But so far so good.  I was running the gain a bit hotter than I typically run it, but it helps when you're dealing with knowns, versus unknowns.  Everything off switch wise except for 48V phantom.  Gain was toward 30%-ish, now closer to 20%.  9am on the Korg, now towards noon.  More sleep then some side by side A/B testing today. 

I'm liking the MM-1's though.  They add a fair amount of weight to the total package, but so far pretty sweet.  As I'm left wondering if the Korgs onboard preamps really suck that much?  The only comparison I've had is the korg and the dmp3 up until now.  The korg was better than the dmp3, but not by much.  The MM-1's seem at first glace to be another league, and a good one.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2010, 01:29:17 PM »
Hmmm.  Using both devices as input into a delta 44 yields a tie of sorts.  Close enough anyway.  The MR1000 sounds a hair muddier, but it has a sort of mid-range boost that favors tenor trombone.  The MM1 has a hair more clarity IMO.  Maybe I should have held off on selling those studio monitors.  My 15yo magnepans just don't have the low end to ID that which I consider most lacking (low end on the MR-1000 itself). 

So far the most dramatic differece appears to be when using the MR-1000 device itself to do the recording.  Line input via TRS seems to trump the onboard preamps via XLR.  I'm going to have to do some more testing to narrow it down.  But as far as preamps to another recording device, the difference is almost neglible.  Both tracks recorded within 0.5dB of each other.  I amped to -1.0 dB from 0, converted to stereo and uploaded it to the Korg for playback at a CD quality wav format.  I can't even really tell a difference at that level on headphones (senn 280's).  Not that a delta 44 is tops, but it's decent IMO. 

One quirk I noticed when blasting to test limiter abilities is that the Korg must have some sort of limiter active (even when the limiter is off) or maybe it just doesn't have the dynamic range (preamps), but input levels while closely matched at normal volume, were dramatically different at peak volumes between the korg and mm1.  With the mm1 limiter engaged, I was able to redline it for the mm1, the mr1000 still had 1/3rd-ish left till peak.  I suppose I could have lowered the levels on the soundcard to avoid redlining it.  But it was odd that there was a difference there.  And that much of one.

Offline Shadow_7

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Re: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2010, 10:11:40 PM »
A/B-ing them on the Korg, a bit more noticeable.  Better low end, lower noise floor, much lower noise floor, but still not much different.  Perhaps the busman mod would have been much cheaper.  The noise floor (noisy mics anyway) is equivalent to the washing machine in the next room (on the korg).  On the MM-1's, it's more like the A/C might be running (or a freezer or something).  I'll have a more familiar source (recording wise) to compare against this weekend.  Although the venue is much different too (indoors).

One downside is that these effectively tripple the weight of the audio rig.  I never realized just how light the Korg is by itself.  Even with 8x AAs.  Fortunately it's all shoulder carry, versus on the stand.  I'm not getting any younger.

 

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