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Author Topic: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder  (Read 47553 times)

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Offline UnknownVT

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Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« on: December 04, 2012, 12:24:37 PM »
Hi I'm new here  -

Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder


I can be considered a noob - but I used to make casual live recordings years ago - initially with a Sony D7 DAT recorder - then various Sony MiniDisc recorders - took part in TapeHeads and DATheads newsgroups - and even built my own microphones from some well rated Panasonic capsules, that got published on the web.

But I haven't done any live recordings for years - until I noticed a friend with what appeared to be a pocket recorder set on a table recording - then it dawned on me that if photography and even videography had gone digital solid-state - ie: flash - don't know why I didn't realize or think of them before - so must audio recording equipment.

So did some minimal research and found portable digital recorders were easily available and reasonably priced.

First saw ConsumerSearch.com in their section "Professional Recorders" - this gave me a start -
using Amazon lists then gave me a better idea of what was out there and being sold -
then google searches found various reviews, comparisons, and here at TapersSection.com for more detailed discussion on them.

It didn't take me long to find out the Zoom H4n seemed to be most popular/coveted and highly rated portable recorder, but doing some searching including Amazon - found other popular recorders such as the Zoom H2n, H1 and Tascam DR-05, DR-07MkII.

But in the end I found a Tascam/Teac VR-10 on Amazon that was priced at $26.69, at the time, brand new so I bought it.

One of the main reasons and grateful to - was I heard a terrific live recording by member cd2go linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in the thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1

In the meantime - obviously I was looking at what would consider to be almost "ideal" - but obviously more expensive recorder - and saw the one I had targeted ($120 lowest price) - at $59 +$7 shipping, used - so I had to snap that up.

First live music recording with the Teac VR-10 was very good in parts, but I also got horrible distortion - this was because the AGC/ALC (auto record level control) could not handle the loud volumes even when set to low sensitivity.

So learned to use manual level control - and most of the time the record levels were down in 0-3 - right near the bottom - distortion problem solved.

One of my early tests was to use a larger microSDHC card fully charge up some eneloop AAA batteries and set the VR-10 on record with 24-bit 48kHz to see how long the battery would last since I had read complaints of short battery life - my one test managed 5hours 19mins worth of recorded files with any single max file size of 2GB (=2hr 4m at 24b48k)

The first VR-10 I got had problems of freezing/locking up if any buttons were pressed during recording.  This may not seem to be much of a problem - but this would include adjusting recording levels during recording, also the VR-10 is supposed to be able to manually create a new file during recording at any time - by pressing the REC key during recording create a new file and continue recording. This is very useful for recording each song to a separate file without stopping and restarting the recording.  BUT doing these could eventually cause the VR-10 to freeze up - and the only recourse is to pull out the battery.

Amazon were very good about replacing the recorder.

However the replacement I got had a much older version of the firmware, and had the same freezing problem.

Tascam USA website lists this item as discontinued and does NOT have any supporting downloads.  Contacting customer service gets only an auto e-mail acknowledgment with ref code (3PEC0QA2) - but NO actual response or help - so could not get latest firmware.

Teac/Tascam EU has downloads for manuals, but no firmware.

Teac.co.jp the Japanese site did have the firmware (http://www.teac.jp/product/vr-10/downloads/), but there were two versions - and release notes was in Japanese only - so I could not figure out which firmware to use, and more to the point how to do the firmware update.  Flashing firmware updates is critical and should not be done by guesswork as it can render the recorder inoperable.

I wrote Teac.co.jp (in English) to ask about the firmware update - they did respond within 24 hours  and the e-mail parts in English did point out which firmware to use (vr-10-40_103.zip, do NOT use the version with the "e" suffix - that is not for "English" but for another model in Japan that actually has the "e" designation) - but no instructions, or location of release Notes and instructions in English.

However I figured out 3 current Tascam models (DR-03, PR-10, DR-08) were based on the Teac VR-10/VR-20 series (again thanks to TapersSection from the above thread and TEAC VR-10/VR-20 = Tascam DR-08 in Japan), and the Tascam DR-08 had a firmware update and pdf release notes/instructions. 

No intention of using DR-08 firmware - but DR-08 release notes/instructions gave the changes/fixes and instructions on how to do the update - I cross-checked with the actual Japanese version of the pdf VR-10 release notes/instructions - by manually copying each paragraph and running the Japanese characters through google translate - to know with pretty good confidence that the notes/instruction were basically the same.

So I was able to do the firmware update successfully.

BUT guess what? the recorder even on the latest firmware that may have addressed this issue -
still Freezes eventually, if any buttons are pressed during recording.

Still, because of the very good sound quality (matches the Tascam DR-07MkII also at 24bit 48k), very small and handy form factor, and low price, I have decided to keep it despite the fatal flaw - as I will just record straight through and do the file splitting, post - inconvenient - but I can just about live with it to gain this very neat small recorder that records very good sound quality.

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 04:16:28 PM »
A 24 bit recorder for $26.69 - ow yeah. Give it to me any day - with or without freezing problems!
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
-U2

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-Aldous Huxley

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 04:25:19 PM »
A 24 bit recorder for $26.69 - ow yeah. Give it to me any day - with or without freezing problems!
Thanks for the encouragement -
yeah, that's the way I felt -
I was simply amazed at how cheap it was -
(of course the price(s) have climbed back up to the $60's)
but the Tascam PR-10 'clone' can still be found for $49 shipped from Sweetwater.

Thanks

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 04:32:25 PM »
So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
-U2

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-Aldous Huxley

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 04:54:37 PM »
So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?
OK remember I am still a neophyte -
I consider the Tascam DR-07MkII as my main (or serious  ;D) recorder -
but I have recorded two separate 2+ hours shows with both recorders literally side-by-side and both @ 24bit 48k -
other than volume differences - I did not notice any significant difference in sound quality. 
I listened with Sony MDR-V6 monitor headphones, as well as the Philips SHE3580 IEMs.  Listening not on the recorders, but on my PC.

But it seems that I am using this Teac VR-10 more often simply because it is small handy and not really intrusive/noticeable -
plus it was so cheap that if I lost it I would not cry (much, anyway  :-[ )

Thanks again.

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 09:36:06 PM »
So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?
OK remember I am still a neophyte -
I consider the Tascam DR-07MkII as my main (or serious  ;D) recorder -
but I have recorded two separate 2+ hours shows with both recorders literally side-by-side and both @ 24bit 48k -
other than volume differences - I did not notice any significant difference in sound quality. 
I listened with Sony MDR-V6 monitor headphones, as well as the Philips SHE3580 IEMs.  Listening not on the recorders, but on my PC.

But it seems that I am using this Teac VR-10 more often simply because it is small handy and not really intrusive/noticeable -
plus it was so cheap that if I lost it I would not cry (much, anyway  :-[ )

Thanks again.

No fears and no worries acknowledging you're a neophite - that's perfectly fine, everyone has to start somewhere :)

Ok, the DR-07MkII is a great recorder, although I understand what you mean when you say you end up using the VR10 more often. Comfort and handiness is an important point of being alright when taping so carrying the less intrusive recorder is of course a big improvement - even more when the sound quality is so similar!

The internal microphones of many/most handheld recorders aren't as bad as most experienced tapers say. Of course, external mics are the way to go if you're a bit more serious about your recordings and want to expect a higher quality, but a pair of internal mics, if thehy're ideally placed and under not too high SPLs, will perform very good too and get you listenable recordings. Have you considered getting an unexpensive pair of external mics?
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
-U2

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-Aldous Huxley

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 12:17:24 AM »
The internal microphones of many/most handheld recorders aren't as bad as most experienced tapers say. Of course, external mics are the way to go if you're a bit more serious about your recordings and want to expect a higher quality, but a pair of internal mics, if thehy're ideally placed and under not too high SPLs, will perform very good too and get you listenable recordings. Have you considered getting an unexpensive pair of external mics?
I actually still have those homemade mics with circuit based on those Panasonic capsules -
I remember they made some impressive sounding recordings on those older digital recorders
I'll dig them out and see if they give any improvements over the built-in mics.

However I have been impressed with the sound quality so far from the internal mics.
I feel that placement has a lot to do with the overall sound quality - although I was very pleasantly surprised at how good one of my recordings was when this VR10 was placed literally off the side of the stage - the balance was far better than I had any right to expect - of course the stereo imaging left something to be desire - but it was nevertheless still acceptable - I guess I could mono it and just make L-R the same.

I just got back tonight from a gig where I thought I saw the meters hitting max - even though I had the manual record level down to 0 minimum - but pulling that recording into Audacity  - only showed two points of clipping both on the right channel only - expanding/zooming in on the waveforms the clipping remained a thin red linear line - and listening carefully I could not hear the clip - - the DR-07MkII may have possibly done better, but I'm not too sure

Not only that surprisingly the recording sounded better with clarity that was better than the actual live event, where I thought the sound was close to abysmal. So I remain impressed again with this cheapie VR10 and their internal mics.

Thanks,

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 10:22:12 AM »
I can't get over how tiny this VR-10 is:

compared to the Tascam DR-07MkII, which is already considered compact,
and that's an AA battery included for size comparison.

Offline LikeASong

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 12:55:40 PM »
Not only that surprisingly the recording sounded better with clarity that was better than the actual live event,

That's one of the things that surprised me when I started to tape shows. Sometimes, depending on the venue, the conditions, your gear and of course your placement, you can achieve a far better sound quality in your recording than what your ears get when you're there. In my experience this is rare and most times happens the opposite (recording sounds a bit worse than the live sound), but it can definitely happen. Glad you have experienced it too ;)

Could you share some samples recorded with its internals? I've seen it going for 42€ in an online store and I might get it as a backup recorder if I like its internals enough.

And yes, its size is amazing given its quality. I assume the line/microphone inputs are on the upper side and the headphones output on the left side?
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
-U2

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-Aldous Huxley

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 01:26:56 PM »
Could you share some samples recorded with its internals? I've seen it going for 42€ in an online store and I might get it as a backup recorder if I like its internals enough.

Perhaps instead try a recording done by someone more experienced than me?

Terrific live recording by member cd2go using the VR-10 internals
linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1
- cd2go's link to Archive.org (so it's free and legal)
http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

This was the recording that convinced me.

I assume the line/microphone inputs are on the upper side and the headphones output on the left side?

A picture may help - I used the stock pics of the white colored VR-10, as that shows better:

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 01:30:20 PM »
That's a damn fine recording!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 01:36:45 PM »
That's a damn fine recording!
Yes, I couldn't agree more - internals too -
that recording by cd2go absolutely convinced me of the quality of the VR-10 and internals -
it's funny I'm listening to it right now.

This is why I'm even posting here on TS -
because of the great info I had been reading
and that recording on the VR-10 using internals.

Another thing I have found, is to do a search on Archive.org by the recorder name
and often one can find recordings from almost any recorder we're interested in.

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 01:50:18 PM »
Yes, I label all of my recordings on the lma
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline UnknownVT

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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 02:03:29 PM »
Yes, I label all of my recordings on the lma
That is so cool to be able to hear the SQ of any prospective recorder by experienced tapers.

And thank you for the corroboration about cd2go's recording -
it has so much more credibility coming from more experienced TS members


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Re: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 02:13:26 PM »
Damn, that sounds amazing. Defined and wide sound, zero distortion. Obviously very little stereo separation, but then again it's to be expected with L&R mics positioned that close. Stereo separation is not something I consider precisely "essential" so I can def. live with it. The recorder must have been mounted in an ideal place, although there is enough (in amount and close distance) audience sound to assume it wasn't much above the taper's head I think. Also, Irving Plaza is a standing-only venue so no chance of the taper being seated - he must have been among the audience or back at the sound desk.

Anyway, I simply have SERIOUS problems believing that recording to have been made with only those tiny internals. It sounds just too good for a $30 recorder. Even with ideal location and good moderate PA levels & SPL, I think it's just too good.

I might just get this. It's such small money that I've got not much to lose, and judging by that recordings, an awful lot to win. Thanks :)
The worst things in the world are justified by belief.
-U2

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-Aldous Huxley

 

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