Topic: Van den Hul introduces 2.9 mm balanced cable -"The Orchid" (Tunnel Technology)

[cshepherd]

Hi Jason,
It's just an experiment to see if there's an audible difference between firewire and s/pdif.  We honestly don't know, but want to find out for ourselves.   I've got a file transferred via firewire on my laptop.  We're looking forward to listening to both transfers.  I'd be happy to make them available to anyone interested.  We've got two Wilco shows to experiment with and Panic's coming up next week as well.

Thanks for checking it out,
Chris

[JasonSobel]

Hi Jason,
It's just an experiment to see if there's an audible difference between firewire and s/pdif.  We honestly don't know, but want to find out for ourselves.   I've got a file transferred via firewire on my laptop.  We're looking forward to listening to both transfers.  I'd be happy to make them available to anyone interested.  We've got two Wilco shows to experiment with and Panic's coming up next week as well.

Thanks for checking it out,
Chris

Chris,
thanks for responding to me.  I don't really mean to make a big deal out of this, but I'm still wondering.  assuming you agree that the firewire copy is an exact copy of the file on the 722, then it's true that any possible difference would be inaccuracies in the S/PDIF data stream.  ok, that's fine.  just testing the accuracy and the reliability of the S/PDIF output, I can see that as worthwhile.  but instead of a listening test as to whether or not you can hear any differences, wouldn't it be better and more precise to just trim both files (the one transferred via S/PDIF and the one transferred via firewire) to start and end at the exact same point, and then compare wav files.  there are numerous ways to do it.  you could create an .md5 file for each .wav, you could invert one file and then mix together.  if they are identical, that would yield an absolutely flat line.  and I think even EAC has a "wav compare" feature.  Don't you think this would be the best way to compare the two files?
- Jason

[balou2]

Hi Jason,
It's just an experiment to see if there's an audible difference between firewire and s/pdif.  We honestly don't know, but want to find out for ourselves.   I've got a file transferred via firewire on my laptop.  We're looking forward to listening to both transfers.  I'd be happy to make them available to anyone interested.  We've got two Wilco shows to experiment with and Panic's coming up next week as well.

Thanks for checking it out,
Chris

Chris,
thanks for responding to me.  I don't really mean to make a big deal out of this, but I'm still wondering.  assuming you agree that the firewire copy is an exact copy of the file on the 722, then it's true that any possible difference would be inaccuracies in the S/PDIF data stream.  ok, that's fine.  just testing the accuracy and the reliability of the S/PDIF output, I can see that as worthwhile.  but instead of a listening test as to whether or not you can hear any differences, wouldn't it be better and more precise to just trim both files (the one transferred via S/PDIF and the one transferred via firewire) to start and end at the exact same point, and then compare wav files.  there are numerous ways to do it.  you could create an .md5 file for each .wav, you could invert one file and then mix together.  if they are identical, that would yield an absolutely flat line.  and I think even EAC has a "wav compare" feature.  Don't you think this would be the best way to compare the two files?
- Jason

+t

[cshepherd]

Hi Jason,
It's just an experiment to see if there's an audible difference between firewire and s/pdif.  We honestly don't know, but want to find out for ourselves.   I've got a file transferred via firewire on my laptop.  We're looking forward to listening to both transfers.  I'd be happy to make them available to anyone interested.  We've got two Wilco shows to experiment with and Panic's coming up next week as well.

Thanks for checking it out,
Chris

Chris,
thanks for responding to me.  I don't really mean to make a big deal out of this, but I'm still wondering.  assuming you agree that the firewire copy is an exact copy of the file on the 722, then it's true that any possible difference would be inaccuracies in the S/PDIF data stream.  ok, that's fine.  just testing the accuracy and the reliability of the S/PDIF output, I can see that as worthwhile.  but instead of a listening test as to whether or not you can hear any differences, wouldn't it be better and more precise to just trim both files (the one transferred via S/PDIF and the one transferred via firewire) to start and end at the exact same point, and then compare wav files.  there are numerous ways to do it.  you could create an .md5 file for each .wav, you could invert one file and then mix together.  if they are identical, that would yield an absolutely flat line.  and I think even EAC has a "wav compare" feature.  Don't you think this would be the best way to compare the two files?
- Jason

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

[JasonSobel]

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

oh, ok.  I thought it was a safe assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  surely there are other, more critical applications (non-audio related) that make use of firewire where the a an exact digital copy of a file is essential.  on the other hand, I do understand wanting to compare and hear and differences for yourself.

to get back on topic, thanks again for posting these samples.  and I'm looking forward to hearing more shows recorded with the "orchid" cables.  at some point in the future, I'll probably be interested in upgrading my canare star-quads

[scb]

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

md5 is your friend

[F.O.Bean]

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

md5 is your friend

yeah, i make an md5 on the 722 before transfer w/ md5summer, then once transferred i verify the md5 in md5summer, believe it or not, ive had to re-transfer a few files, so EVERYONE should be doing that method IMO, as always YMMV

[cshepherd]

There's a nice conversation on Audigone between some Eugene Hi-Fi customers about van den Hul's rca and xlr cables.  Particularly The Orchid, The Second, The Mainsstream a/c and Mainsserver a/c cables.

Chris

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rcabl&1148248312&read&3&zzlBblilikoi&& 

[Shawn]

Hi Jason,
It's just an experiment to see if there's an audible difference between firewire and s/pdif.  We honestly don't know, but want to find out for ourselves.   I've got a file transferred via firewire on my laptop.  We're looking forward to listening to both transfers.  I'd be happy to make them available to anyone interested.  We've got two Wilco shows to experiment with and Panic's coming up next week as well.

Thanks for checking it out,
Chris

Chris,
thanks for responding to me.  I don't really mean to make a big deal out of this, but I'm still wondering.  assuming you agree that the firewire copy is an exact copy of the file on the 722, then it's true that any possible difference would be inaccuracies in the S/PDIF data stream.  ok, that's fine.  just testing the accuracy and the reliability of the S/PDIF output, I can see that as worthwhile.  but instead of a listening test as to whether or not you can hear any differences, wouldn't it be better and more precise to just trim both files (the one transferred via S/PDIF and the one transferred via firewire) to start and end at the exact same point, and then compare wav files.  there are numerous ways to do it.  you could create an .md5 file for each .wav, you could invert one file and then mix together.  if they are identical, that would yield an absolutely flat line.  and I think even EAC has a "wav compare" feature.  Don't you think this would be the best way to compare the two files?
- Jason

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

you don't need to make an assumption that firewire is flawless. it's a fact.  if the firewire wasn't perfect files transferred throught it would be corrupt.

[thegreatgumbino]

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

md5 is your friend

yeah, i make an md5 on the 722 before transfer w/ md5summer, then once transferred i verify the md5 in md5summer, believe it or not, ive had to re-transfer a few files, so EVERYONE should be doing that method IMO, as always YMMV

How are you doing this, Bean?  Walk a brother through it please.  Thanks.

[F.O.Bean]

Jason,
We're not making the assumption that firewire is a flawless transfer platform.  We're trying to find out if one sounds better than the other, not just documenting differences between the platforms.   This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but we want to hear for ourselves.

Chris

md5 is your friend

yeah, i make an md5 on the 722 before transfer w/ md5summer, then once transferred i verify the md5 in md5summer, believe it or not, ive had to re-transfer a few files, so EVERYONE should be doing that method IMO, as always YMMV

How are you doing this, Bean?  Walk a brother through it please.  Thanks.

just open md5summer, then find the 722 HD under 'my computer'

pick the wav/s you want to make an md5 for, i make one md5 per file, or per set

once md5 summer makes trhe md5 file, just copy to your destination, then verify md5 in md5summer

DONE

and if you dont have firmware version 1.79 beta, grab it, firewire speeds are 2x as fast as version 1.74, although 1.74 is a verified rock solid firmware

at moedown i got hosed on one set, not sure it was from version 1.79 or user error, i sent SD a detailed email regarding the issue tho

have fun w/ your new toy, its gonna sound so good on its own, youre gonna sell the v3, and maybe buy a v2 since the 722's AD is much superior to the v3's ADC IMHO

if you EVER have questions about the 722, just shoot me a PM

[F.O.Bean]

oh and +T for joining team 722, we have the phatest all-in-one for under 10k the 722 is by far the nicest pro gear iver ever had the fortune to run/own, you gonna LOVE ETTTTTTT

so when did ya get it in yer hands did ya score that demo for 2k if so, great deal bro, i wouldnt sell mine used for under 2200

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

you don't need to make an assumption that firewire is flawless. it's a fact.  if the firewire wasn't perfect files transferred throught it would be corrupt.

Over a firewire link, file transfers are performed using asynchronous mode which does provide error correction.  However, when streaming audio or video in isochronous mode there is no error correction.   So it's entirely possible to have bit errors. 

[macdaddy]

dont use a 722, but i do use hd recorders, and the md5 is the true test if you got it exactly copied - i have had transfers fail, too - and it was the md5 that showed me...

i make an md5 of the file on the recorder, and then use that md5 sig to test the one that is copied to the harddrive...

[thegreatgumbino]

just open md5summer, then find the 722 HD under 'my computer'

pick the wav/s you want to make an md5 for, i make one md5 per file, or per set

once md5 summer makes trhe md5 file, just copy to your destination, then verify md5 in md5summer

DONE

and if you dont have firmware version 1.79 beta, grab it, firewire speeds are 2x as fast as version 1.74, although 1.74 is a verified rock solid firmware

at moedown i got hosed on one set, not sure it was from version 1.79 or user error, i sent SD a detailed email regarding the issue tho

have fun w/ your new toy, its gonna sound so good on its own, youre gonna sell the v3, and maybe buy a v2 since the 722's AD is much superior to the v3's ADC IMHO

if you EVER have questions about the 722, just shoot me a PM

Sweet.  Thanks, Bean.  I never would have thought about doing this, but it's a nice safeguard.  +T

oh and +T for joining team 722, we have the phatest all-in-one for under 10k the 722 is by far the nicest pro gear iver ever had the fortune to run/own, you gonna LOVE ETTTTTTT

so when did ya get it in yer hands did ya score that demo for 2k if so, great deal bro, i wouldnt sell mine used for under 2200

I got it about a week ago.  It's the demo unit that Jason posted about.  It was a long wait, but well worth it.  It's a sweet little box for sure, and it's got tons of features.