Topic: Mo' Booty? How to get a bit more bass in my rig...

[Zeke]

Hey Y'all

I'm sort of a noob with a dozen or so shows under my belt.  I've been involved with music for many years though, just not on this end of the mic.

Oh, and I'm a bass player  so that's one of the reasons I'd like to see a bit more low end oomph in my recordings.

My Gear:

Microphone Madness MM-HLSC-1 cards > MM Battery Box > iRiver H160 (w/rockbox)

I'm aware that these mics are known for a lite bass response, though I wasn't so aware of this before I bought them a few years ago.  The battery box has the ability to block bass freqs but I've got it set to 16 Hz (which probably means it's not blocking anything).

I record mostly loud rock shows, and I have been impressed with the ability of my rig to handle this.  I don't want to invest a bunch more in my rig -- if I could find some mics/preamp setup that could do what this one does but with better bass response I would probably sell what I have.  iRiver is staying though, at least for now.

So what would you experienced guys suggest?

I'm looking to stay battery portable, and I've seen alot of posts about the Church Audio stuff.  Would the sound quality be comparable but with more booty?

Thanks alot, this site has been invaluable to me so far and I want to thank all of you for that.

Zeke

[jnorman34]

clearly, you are ready to upgrade your mics to acheive what you are after.  it depends heavily on what your budget is, and what kinds of conditions you record under.  omnis are going to give you the best bass response because they do not exhibit proximity effect like cards do, BUT you have to be able to carefully place omnis to get top quality recordings (and to avoid too much crowd noise), so they are often limited in large venues where you have no control over where you palce your mics. 

to get good quality when you are at a fair distance from a stage, you will need some pretty good quality mics, probably of hypercard configuration.  if you are regularly able to set up close to stage lip, cards can work fine.  for entry level, decent quality mics that can offer both card and hypercard (as well as omni), you might consider the akg blue line c391b's with multiple caps.  some folks like the SP C4s which also offer more than one capsule choice and are very affordable.  if you have a bigger budget than that, let us know and we will inundate you with a number of other mic choices.

[Jammin72]

Number 1 consideration in any recording rig.... Microphone.  It's all about the transducer!  After that it's real estate... location, location, location.

[jnorman34]

yo jammin - ck63's - yeah baby!!!

[Jammin72]

yo jammin - ck63's - yeah baby!!!

Probably the most underrated, most linear hyper available on the market!  Not 'cause I own it, just 'cause I've heard it.

MK41  is the other hyper with the mostest.  The cardioid debate gets very thick very quickly.

[Jammin72]

yo jammin - ck63's - yeah baby!!!

Probably the most underrated, most linear hyper available on the market!  Not 'cause I own it, just 'cause I've heard it.

MK41  is the other hyper with the mostest.  The cardioid debate gets very thick very quickly.

How quickly I forget the MG21... shame shame.

[udovdh]

Dunno the MM stuff but if they are like what they are made of there is plenty of bass.

If you see the specs for the mic capsule they need 16K terminating or so.
Perhaps the iriver has a lower impedance?
I suspect that may cause a (relative) lack of bass.

[BC]

Add EQ post.

[Dede2002]

Hey Y'all

I'm sort of a noob with a dozen or so shows under my belt.  I've been involved with music for many years though, just not on this end of the mic.

Oh, and I'm a bass player  so that's one of the reasons I'd like to see a bit more low end oomph in my recordings.

My Gear:

Microphone Madness MM-HLSC-1 cards > MM Battery Box > iRiver H160 (w/rockbox)

I'm aware that these mics are known for a lite bass response, though I wasn't so aware of this before I bought them a few years ago.  The battery box has the ability to block bass freqs but I've got it set to 16 Hz (which probably means it's not blocking anything).

I record mostly loud rock shows, and I have been impressed with the ability of my rig to handle this.  I don't want to invest a bunch more in my rig -- if I could find some mics/preamp setup that could do what this one does but with better bass response I would probably sell what I have.  iRiver is staying though, at least for now.

So what would you experienced guys suggest?

I'm looking to stay battery portable, and I've seen alot of posts about the Church Audio stuff.  Would the sound quality be comparable but with more booty?

Thanks alot, this site has been invaluable to me so far and I want to thank all of you for that.

Zeke

Hello Zeke,

I've never used  an iRiver H160. I'm an Edirol R-09 user plus a HLSC-1 pair. Yes, the bass is not it's strong feature if you're looking for earth shaking,deep bass. But it has a very nice bass. Tight, controled and well defined. No worries about HPF on post and so on. But you can always add a touch of bass later. Just a touch would be more than enough, trust me. My 2 cents.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Add EQ post.

Can't boost what was never captued.  Additionally, who wants to deal with that after every show.  Capture the recording right the first time IMO...

[Dede2002]

Add EQ post.

Can't boost what was never captued.  Additionally, who wants to deal with that after every show.  Capture the recording right the first time IMO...

Hey Javier, how are you? I agree 100% with your remarks. But this is not exactly what happens with the HLSC-1. In my extremely humble opinion, it does capture bass all right. Not a huge amount of bass, but more than enough for you to add a little touch on the lower frequencies and make it more pleasant to listen.
Take care

[Javier Cinakowski]

Add EQ post.

Can't boost what was never captued.  Additionally, who wants to deal with that after every show.  Capture the recording right the first time IMO...

Hey Javier, how are you? I agree 100% with your remarks. But this is not exactly what happens with the HLSC-1. In my extremely humble opinion, it does capture bass all right. Not a huge amount of bass, but more than enough for you to add a little touch on the lower frequencies and make it more pleasant to listen.
Take care

Doin well my freind!

Hey, if you want to take the time and EQ after every show, have at it!   I think I would just EQ on my stereo instead....

[Dede2002]

Add EQ post.

Can't boost what was never captued.  Additionally, who wants to deal with that after every show.  Capture the recording right the first time IMO...

Hey Javier, how are you? I agree 100% with your remarks. But this is not exactly what happens with the HLSC-1. In my extremely humble opinion, it does capture bass all right. Not a huge amount of bass, but more than enough for you to add a little touch on the lower frequencies and make it more pleasant to listen.
Take care

Doin well my freind!

Hey, if you want to take the time and EQ after every show, have at it!   I think I would just EQ on my stereo instead....

That's also good idea 

[Jimna]

Add EQ post.

Can't boost what was never captued.  Additionally, who wants to deal with that after every show.  Capture the recording right the first time IMO...

^^that guy is more ofter right than wrong.   fact.

[Liquid Drum]

When I used the HLSC I got LOTS of bass frequencies (A bit too much for me, but was easy to EQ).

[Javier Cinakowski]

When I used the HLSC I got LOTS of bass frequencies (A bit too much for me, but was easy to EQ).

The HLSC has really strong proximity effect.  If you get close the bass is amazing, from a distance it sucks...

[Jimna]

clearly, you are ready to upgrade your mics to acheive what you are after.  it depends heavily on what your budget is, and what kinds of conditions you record under.  omnis are going to give you the best bass response because they do not exhibit proximity effect like cards do, BUT you have to be able to carefully place omnis to get top quality recordings (and to avoid too much crowd noise), so they are often limited in large venues where you have no control over where you palce your mics. 

to get good quality when you are at a fair distance from a stage, you will need some pretty good quality mics, probably of hypercard configuration.  if you are regularly able to set up close to stage lip, cards can work fine.  for entry level, decent quality mics that can offer both card and hypercard (as well as omni), you might consider the akg blue line c391b's with multiple caps.  some folks like the SP C4s which also offer more than one capsule choice and are very affordable.  if you have a bigger budget than that, let us know and we will inundate you with a number of other mic choices.

in that same price range the busman bsc1 SDC mics are outstanding and smo0ke all the above mics by a mile.  just my 2 cents...

[Belexes]

When I used the HLSC I got LOTS of bass frequencies (A bit too much for me, but was easy to EQ).

Me too. I just posted a recent sample in my HLSC-1 appreciation thread. Lots of great bottom end response.

[newplanet7]

391's will give you plenty of low-end.
I was going to get some busmans to try out but decided not to and opted to keep
my 391's because I like the sound of the 391's better, especially the low-end/bass.
Of course that was after downloading torrents and listening on archive,
which I highly suggest doing.
Either way I think you'll be happy with any of the suggestions of mics above.
my .02

[Jimna]

dude, i bet the busman's would totally hang with the 39x series.  that would be a great comp! 

....but my money is on the busman's.

[newplanet7]

dude, i bet the busman's would totally hang with the 39x series.  that would be a great comp! 

....but my money is on the busman's.

I think that would be a great comp too.
I know the shows I've done have had excellent low-end results.
I don't think they smoke the busmans or anything like that, 
but I think that they do have a definite advantage in all areas.
The busmans are a little too thin and airy for me, but great for the $$.
Although I did dig yor tapes on archive for the highs, not the lows.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I don't think the 391's are better than the busmans at all.  I would love to hear a comp, but the 39x series does not impress me in the low end either...

[newplanet7]

I don't think the 391's are better than the busmans at all.  I would love to hear a comp, but the 39x series does not impress me in the low end either...

They're fine for me and that's what I listen for is clarity of bass.
I didn't get that from the busmans. Which is why I dig the AKG's a ton more.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.......
Take a listen to the shows on the archive. Not much bass there.
Very thin and airy. Great highs though.

Not really that big of a deal. Just not my bag or else I would've gotten the busmans.
I am more than convinced that I will get better low-end from the 391's.
I compared from torrents and what was on the archive and taped with my 391's.
I dig mine a lot more or else I would switch.

[Jimna]

this recording alone screams MO' BOOTY!
http://www.archive.org/details/bridge2008-02-16.flac.16

love these fuggin things.

[newplanet7]

I'll give you that one.
And there is two Toubab Krewe's on there that do have booty.
But I can also list ten to fifteen shows that have no bass whatsoever.
And I'm sure you could do the same for the akg's. I was looking to upgrade but IMO
that would not be an upgrade.
Obvously we're not going to agree because you run the busmans and I run the AKG's.
But +t for trying.

This is more of a response to you saying that the busmans would smoke the AKG's

in that same price range the busman bsc1 SDC mics are outstanding and smo0ke all the above mics by a mile.  just my 2 cents...

But I stand firm on what I've heard and that's my preference from what
I've recorded and the list I'm sending you.

PM Sent to show you what I'm talking about.
-todd

[Jimna]

I'll give you that one.
And there is two Toubab Krewe's on there that do have booty.
But I can also list ten to fifteen shows that have no bass whatsoever.
And I'm sure you could do the same for the akg's. I was looking to upgrade but IMO
that would not be an upgrade.
Obvously we're not going to agree because you run the busmans and I run the AKG's.
But +t for trying.

This is more of a response to you saying that the busmans would smoke the AKG's

in that same price range the busman bsc1 SDC mics are outstanding and smo0ke all the above mics by a mile.  just my 2 cents...

But I stand firm on what I've heard and that's my preference from what
I've recorded and the list I'm sending you.

PM Sent to show you what I'm talking about.
-todd

right on man, one of my favorite ratdog tapes is from 391's> ua5> dap1, so i respect those mics for sure.  im just a guy with a new set of mics who likes to fluff them at all chances.   

+T for standing firm on your feelings, and of course being steadfast on whats rendered you fine tapes in the past. 

tenacity is a most valuable trait found in most tapers.   

[Gutbucket]

Consider also the spacing of the mics.. wider spacing IME sounds richer and wider (stereophonically) in the bass region, a psychoacoustic effect.  I love deep omni bass and the dimension and depth of a good amount of space between the mics. Get them about a meter apart and it's rich.. may need to reduce some bass afterwards, but the wide, stereo, rich bass and ambiance is worth the trouble to me.  You can do the same with cards, just narrow the angle to suit. Remember that the more directional the mic pattern, the more the really low stuff will roll-off, which can of course be a good thing in many cases.

Big booty is wide, baby. 

[newplanet7]

right on man, one of my favorite ratdog tapes is from 391's> ua5> dap1, so i respect those mics for sure.  im just a guy with a new set of mics who likes to fluff them at all chances.   

+T for standing firm on your feelings, and of course being steadfast on whats rendered you fine tapes in the past. 

tenacity is a most valuable trait found in most tapers.   

Plus tee right back at ya!
Thanks for the discussion jim. 
-todd