Topic: Stealthy mic comparisons

[zowie]

I thought people might be interested in checking out this guy's samples, especially new tapers, since he has used a number of the entry/intermediate mics that people are often deciding between. 

There are not direct comparisons, but I thought it was particularly useful for highlighting the distinct sound of the "sennheiser-driven" MMs vs others (big difference -- explains vehement disagreement by some about which are "better").

http://www.dutchtaper.com/gear.php


(BTW: DutchTaper has posted here a few times.)

[Unitmonster]

thanks for this. interesting to check out. Especially interesting to compare the DPA's to the Sennheisers.  I honestly wonder why the 4061's get so much praise for aud taping in rock concert situations.  Of course the imaging is amazing, but lack of sound rejection is way too tough to work with IMO.  Of course if you were doing onstage taping with a quiet (classical, opera, some jazz) audience that's one thing, but otherwise, I don't see the point.  Compare the two knopfler recordings to see what I mean.

[shaggy]

Man, that Knopfler is awesome!  Those MM Senn are impressive.  I wished dutchtaper would record other smaller bands in clubs with that set up!

My hugest complaint with 406X is ambient pickup of chatter, shouters and wiggers.  But you know, if the crowd is quiet....they will sound better than even a pair of mk4s which are like 3 times more expensive.  I have made very impressive in-store recording with my DPAs....the MMA6000 pre really is a stunning piece of gear.  In time, DPA will develop a better minature card...at least better than the 4071. 

[Evil Taper]

DPA is supposed to introde a card in the same breed as the 4061s sometime in the near future.  As for why the 4061s get so much hype in the stealth world?  They're realistic sounding, they're tiny, they're easy to power and they don't get overloaded by bass or spl ever.  In the right situation they'll smoke those sennheisers easily, but for chatty shows they can suck.  For what it's worth any mics will pick up chatter when the people standing next to you are chatty.  Yeah yeah, fluffing my own gear....sorry.

[sullen]

Also, mind you, this person never used DAT+4061, i believe all his recordings with the DPA are MD, so really not comparable at all.


that said. im impressed with the Shure and Senn, and to switch from 4061, says alot...


Good Thread! +T

[sullen]

PS:

anyone know what capsule is in these:
MM-HLSC-2 HighLine Sennheiser Driven Cardioid

??

[Humbug]

All info on "microphone madness" mics are here:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/

and the specific mics mentioned:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmhigsencars1.htm

Constructed with state of the art components, tooled, machined and assembled by Microphone Madness, these microphones display extreme warmth in sound quality that is truely amazing! The microphone elements are of the "Sennheiser" Battleship Line, a perfectly matched set! These microphones are detailed down to the steel mesh grills at the top of each microphone. Overall housing dimension are 7/16" wide x 7/8" long. Each microphone comes with a heavy duty windscreen. The (MM-HLSC-2) does "not" come with holding clips! Exiting each housing is double shielded premium microphone cable, each 6 foot long, that terminate into a 1/8 inch (3.5mm) connector.

I'm pretty impressed too, that he dropped DPA4061s in favour of these mics. Saying that, not everyone here likes the sound of DPA4061s..I love them only if the venue acoustics are great and the audience well behaved.

[Unitmonster]

I love them only if the venue acoustics are great and the audience well behaved.

Exactly my point.  That disqualifies about 80% of the shows I attend.   

I mean hell, even at the jazz show I saw a couple of weeks ago, two guys were constantly whispering back and forth behind me.  If my mics had picked that up, especially in crystal clear clarity, I would have been pissed.

[zowie]

Let's also bear in mind that the DPAs cost much more.

There's a lot of things I like about the MM Senn's and I'm thinking of buying a pair.  But there's something I don't like that I can't put my finger on.  It's like they're too smooth.  The midrange reminds me of those big cushiony 1970s headphones.

[Dutchtaper]

Just noticed this thread (thanks John), if anyone has any specific questions about my taping gear I'd be more than happy to answer them. I dropped the DPA mics because they pick up too much ambient noise for my taste, and they are too expensive to hold on to just for that one show a year that is held in a venue with nice acoustics. They are small though, REALLY small. After that I switched to Shure MX185 cardioid mics. I picked those mainly because I like the brand and they are not used by many people. The results were excellent, the best being Neil Young 2001-07-24, one of my best recordings. But when I recorded Roxette (yeah I know, shoot me), the Shure mics couldn't handle the SPL. So once again I was looking for a replacement, my main objective being to find mics that were relatively unknown yet of nice quality. I was trying to avoid the AT mics that everybody seems to use. I ended up with the MM mics, so far I have been happy with them, no SPL problems anymore and they produce a nice sound.

I've got to mention though that I do some postprocessing on my recordings, but usually only some EQ'ing.

And as far as recorders go, my personal experience is that the difference between a DAT and a MD recording is very small, as long as the transfer is done properly. Sure, a big difference probably can be heard if you know where to listen and have a pro-setup, but the mics are FAR more important to the sound of a recording.

Currently I don't have a recorder actually, I'm away from home for 6 months (I'm currently in Pittsburgh USA) and I sold my Edirol, knowing that M-Audio was releasing a new device. I forgot the exact name, 2496 or something? Anyway, I'm looking to buy that one sometime soon.

[rdvdijk]

After that I switched to Shure MX185 cardioid mics. I picked those mainly because I like the brand and they are not used by many people. The results were excellent, the best being Neil Young 2001-07-24, one of my best recordings.

Currently I don't have a recorder actually, I'm away from home for 6 months (I'm currently in Pittsburgh USA) and I sold my Edirol, knowing that M-Audio was releasing a new device. I forgot the exact name, 2496 or something? Anyway, I'm looking to buy that one sometime soon.

Personally, I found your Shure's a bit "too cardioid". There is one of your Neil Young tapes that sounds like you're recording from the inside of a big tube and the source of sound is at the other end. It sounds *excellent* during the music, but the audience sounds are a bit freaky. Do you understand? (thanks for the Neil Young recordings, by the way, all are great)

Be sure to read up on the Microtrack 2496 on this forum, plenty of interesting threads going on. M-Audio is actually taking advice from everybody here and working on another firmware update as-we-speak.

Roel

[Evil Taper]

Honestly, the 4061s don't pick up that much crowd noise unless you're standing next to someone whose talking, but that's when you move.  It's just a matter of taste, omnis rub some people the wrong way.  I can tell you that I'm not buying any more cards until I can get something on the upper rungs of the mic ladder.  Most cardiod mics don't sound natural until you EQ the recordings, and then you're not accurately representing the sound of the mics anyway.  They do create a more pleasurable listen on crappy stereos, but a good omni tape has a live feel and pressence that you'll never achieve with any cards.  It's mostly a matter of personal taste so use what sounds good to your ears.  I preffer clarity and realistic sound representation over good car stereo playback.  Any rig has it's own distinct characteristics so buyers beware.

[nickgregory]

Honestly, the 4061s don't pick up that much crowd noise unless you're standing next to someone whose talking, but that's when you move.  It's just a matter of taste, omnis rub some people the wrong way.  I can tell you that I'm not buying any more cards until I can get something on the upper rungs of the mic ladder.  Most cardiod mics don't sound natural until you EQ the recordings, and then you're not accurately representing the sound of the mics anyway.  They do create a more pleasurable listen on crappy stereos, but a good omni tape has a live feel and pressence that you'll never achieve with any cards.  It's mostly a matter of personal taste so use what sounds good to your ears.  I preffer clarity and realistic sound representation over good car stereo playback.  Any rig has it's own distinct characteristics so buyers beware.

"Most cardiod mics don't sound natural until you EQ the recordings"....or that you need to listen on a crappy stereo for cards to sound good are two completely absurd stateements.  Omnis need perfect circumstances to not be too boomy sounding in my experience, whereas cards are alot more forgiving.  Hell I would put the 4022s up against any omni mic and the 4022s would win out in all but a very few circumstances, where the omnis may have every characteristic right to make a good tape.   And fwiw, my playback is not put together with nickels and dimes

[sml42]

"It's mostly a matter of personal taste". Indeed it is, and I happen to be a fan of the (omni) 406x sound - specifically my 4060 in stealth (HRTF) You're right, cards are a lot more forgiving but I value the transparency of my 4060 and the fact that they pick up exactly what I'm hearing on the night. Your challenge, should you accept it, is to find the sweet spot (and anyway, if the sound isn't right on the night then heck, my mojo has already been ruined for the evening!)

[scb]

Most cardiod mics don't sound natural until you EQ the recordings, and then you're not accurately representing the sound of the mics anyway.  They do create a more pleasurable listen on crappy stereos, but a good omni tape has a live feel and pressence that you'll never achieve with any cards.  It's mostly a matter of personal taste so use what sounds good to your ears.  I preffer clarity and realistic sound representation over good car stereo playback.  Any rig has it's own distinct characteristics so buyers beware.

i find my rig (dpa cards) to have great clarity and a very realistic sound representation, both in th car and on home playback

You're right, cards are a lot more forgiving but I value the transparency of my 4060 and the fact that they pick up exactly what I'm hearing on the night. Your challenge, should you accept it, is to find the sweet spot (and anyway, if the sound isn't right on the night then heck, my mojo has already been ruined for the evening!)

i value the transparency of my 4022s and the fact that they pick up exactly what i'm hearing on the night