Topic: Ethernet Run between 2 buildings?

[ArchivalAudio]

In A couple of other discussion threads
I explain the woes of getting internet out to my  detached garage about 60' feet behind our house.
discussed here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139707.0
So I now have been having horrid connections sped that have significantly dropped off since April 30th see thread here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145366.0

Now I am back to square one and would like to go to my first choice to Run Ethernet CAT6 from the house to the garage, buried in some PVC conduit pipe. The struggle is that we have a number of concrete pads and sidewalks that go diagonally across the yard, making my trenching need to go under a t least a few sidewalks.
I assume I will also need one or possible 2 surge suppressors on the CAT6
looking at picking up 2(if needed) of these:
one by APC Model PNET1GB



potentially thru Newegg so I can also get more CAT 6.


The Idea for this is so I can run my Airport Extreme out in the garage, to create the network out here.

Is there a better way to do this?
what other  things should I look out for/ consider?


thank you very much for your help!
--Ian

[rastasean]

If this were me, the first thing I would want to do is test to make sure the speeds are sufficient prior to digging up the yard and spending more money. Do you have 70+ feet of cat 6 cable? Looks like newegg just has 50 foot followed by 100 foot: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100010070%20600079561%20600026274%20600026276&IsNodeId=1&name=100%20ft.

So I would get the right length cable and run it from the router to the shed for a couple days to see if the speeds remain constant or if they degrade like you've been experiencing. Do speed tests, file transfers from other machines on your network to this one, uploading, downloads from something like archive, heavy web browsing, etc.
Are you using any switches or just one router?

[ArchivalAudio]

Thanx ^^^^^
that was the idea to just set it up first even if jusyt over night (weekend) just runing the CAT6 above the ground through a window.
I know I saw some 75' cables somewhere either on markertek or maybe amazon.
I remeasured the distance today and the garage is just over 50' formt he house, more like closer to 60' but less than the 60' I figure with bends and turns etc a 75' CAT6 cable should work

would it be a good idea to have a surge supressor on each end? that way I could have double grounds to each structures "earth" and  they also act as a Female>Female coupler?
--Ian

[Shadow_7]

At those lengths, you might be better off just buying the wire spool and crimping the connections yourself.  But it sounds like a lot more work than it's worth IMO.  Setup some wireless N type network.  Sure it's slow compared to 6.  But you could run several networks and multi-plex it, packets are packets.  But the main issue with running ethernet outside is lightning.  The other one being that any future trenching is going to cut right through it.  Unless you need absolute security, or also need to run some power cables across that span, I just think that ethernet isn't the way to go.  Fiber optics or other options maybe, but not exactly consumer friendly.  It's only a matter of time until 6 is old hat and you need something new / different.  Plus you'll be doing a lot of work that you could otherwise avoid.

Anyway back to lengths, 60' across, plus 3' down from the ground and 3' up out of the ground, plus probably 6' from ground to computer, if you enter the building at the desired destination, and 6' up on the other end.  Which is already 78'.  Factor in that you need 20% slack, or at least that's the military spec for comm lines running through a forest.  Vehicles, critters, hills, trees, and such...  Seems like a lot of headache to me.  YMMV.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I recently bought a 100' of terminated cat5 for $10 from amazon.  Don't get caught up in the hype, cat5e is fine.  The ethernet spec allows 300' per segment. Maybe that will allow you to get creative and route around your concrete.

If you do need to bury this cable, you'll want to run some kind of conduit to protect it and allow pulling/replacing cable in the future.  You should pull a cord/wire with the cable. That way the cord is in place for pulling future cable.  Is your garage power already in conduit?  Maybe you can pull through that?

Have you considering hanging the cable?

When routing cable you typically need a fair bit more than the 'as the crow flies' estimate.  Given the 300' tolerance, there is no reason to end up short. Try and borrow a spool from someone.  Pulling a cable that already has ends crimped on it is very hard, and the ends tend to get abused.  So I wouldn't worry so much about that.

It is easier to attach a cable to a modern wall jack than to crimp an end on it.  Good crimps actually take skill and practice.

[M]

I recently bought a 100' of terminated cat5 for $10 from amazon.  Don't get caught up in the hype, cat5e is fine.  The ethernet spec allows 300' per segment. Maybe that will allow you to get creative and route around your concrete.

If you do need to bury this cable, you'll want to run some kind of conduit to protect it and allow pulling/replacing cable in the future.  You should pull a cord/wire with the cable. That way the cord is in place for pulling future cable.  Is your garage power already in conduit?  Maybe you can pull through that?

Have you considering hanging the cable?

When routing cable you typically need a fair bit more than the 'as the crow flies' estimate.  Given the 300' tolerance, there is no reason to end up short. Try and borrow a spool from someone.  Pulling a cable that already has ends crimped on it is very hard, and the ends tend to get abused.  So I wouldn't worry so much about that.

It is easier to attach a cable to a modern wall jack than to crimp an end on it.  Good crimps actually take skill and practice.

You offer good advice and I understand the impulse to run in the electrical conduit but I'm sure that it's against code and I would recommend not doing this.

[rastasean]

what code?

[vanark]

what code?

I think he means building code.

If it was me, I'd be trying a different wireless router before I started digging a trench.  Someplace that you can return it if you have the same issue.  And, yes, a clear line of sight (or lack thereof) will impact the quality of the wireless signal.  Do you know how many dB it is measuring currently in the garage (vs. previously)?

It isn't clear to me if you wife is using the same wireless router or is hard wired to the Charter router.  I did read the two referenced threads, but sorry if I missed this point.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You offer good advice and I understand the impulse to run in the electrical conduit but I'm sure that it's against code and I would recommend not doing this.

Oh - right.  Good point.  Don't do that!

He could always hide the network cable by running it in a garden hose above ground

[ArchivalAudio]

what code?

I think he means building code.

If it was me, I'd be trying a different wireless router before I started digging a trench.  Someplace that you can return it if you have the same issue.  And, yes, a clear line of sight (or lack thereof) will impact the quality of the wireless signal.  Do you know how many dB it is measuring currently in the garage (vs. previously)?

It isn't clear to me if you wife is using the same wireless router or is hard wired to the Charter router.  I did read the two referenced threads, but sorry if I missed this point.

[Shadow_7]

Your speed test seems questionable.  I wouldn't be concerned with internet to you speeds.  Unless all of this is going to the cloud.  At your test either your ISP sucks, or you have some routing / dns issues that are slowing you down.  An Asus RT-N12 will run about $40 at Fry's and other sources.  It can act as router, AP, or repeater (or was it bridge?).  If signal strength is an issue, put one in the middle point between buildings for a test run.  If it helps, then you know that that's an issue.  Although I recall reading that the RT-N12 falls back to G under certain conditions, and the RT-N16 is more than double the price.  If you're going to go that route check the DD-WRT and openwrt.org options if that interests you.

Even in G you should be doing better than that.  If only in theory 480Mbps (as in bits, not bytes / aka 60MBps).  But that's more than enough to stream most hulu or youtube content, at low quality, in real time.  Cat 5e, assuming 100, not 10 (they do both), is 100MBps ?  Cat 6 with gigabit is many times that (in theory).  Unless you're streaming video, do you really need that?  Is it functionally any different than a baby monitor could provide? 

One other thought, isn't 2.4GHz the same Hz are some cordless phones?  You might try a different channel to use for your wireless signal.  Tin foil and/or pringle can can help bridge the distance a bit too.  Elevation helps so it's not going through dressers full of clothes AND walls.  And wireless passes through glass a lot better than brick.  If you have to strategize it.

If you still must dig, you might consider going with 4" PVC pipe.  It would allow for cables to be rerun at a later date, whatever the future might bring.  And allow for a pet rat or RC vehicle to help run the pull line to the other side.  Should one break, or never be put in place to start with.  Or if you run into water issues, you can run a wetvac hose down there.  Digging sounds okay at first, until you actually start doing it.  At least around here where it's 8" of soil until you've hit limestone.  Or some other place I lived where it was 3" until granite.  Nothing quite like 6 months of swinging a pick axe to appreciate the wireless option(s).

[ArchivalAudio]

1.Your speed test seems questionable.   
2.At your test either your ISP sucks, or you have some routing / dns issues that are slowing you down. 
 3. If signal strength is an issue, put one in the middle point between buildings for a test run.  If it helps, then you know that that's an issue. 
4. Although I recall reading that the RT-N12 falls back to G under certain conditions, and the RT-N16 is more than double the price. 
5. If you're going to go that route check the DD-WRT and openwrt.org options if that interests you.

.6. But that's more than enough to stream most hulu or youtube content, at low quality, in real time. 
7. You might try a different channel to use for your wireless signal.
8. Tin foil and/or pringle can can help bridge the distance a bit too. 
9. Elevation helps so it's not going through dressers full of clothes AND walls.  And wireless passes through glass a lot better than brick. 
10. If you have to strategize it.

Not to sound flippant and thank you for your reply
but I have addressed nearly all of these issues before in previous threads and comments so here is
 answers the above 1-10
1. yep - however inside the house with the netgearModem/Router my wife's MacBook can get anywhere from 5.xxmbps to 10mbps.
2.  yep but I have all my ports open and if you see my other thread it was exactly between April 30th and May 6th when my speed dropped.
3.  I have fine signal with my Hawking HAWNU2 in 2.4ghz (n) NOT G  just my speeds dropped - could be the airport? not sure?
4. I have my Airport "forced" into n Mode both 2.4ghz and 5ghz - thought the hawking only uses 5ghz - which is why I want to run my aiprt in the garage in 5ghz via ethernet.
5. I don't need a new router I am a mac guy since 1988 and like the ease of set up - I do have another wireless router for my wife that we can set up thought it does not run in n also have an older Airport (saucer style) extreme only G speeds with that one too.
6.  that's the deal - since april 30 I can no longer stream even low quality YouTube or NetFlix.
7. I have tried every channel from 1-11, and choose based upon the site survey of other networks and their respective signal strength - also I switch them as needed ( see attached pic)
8. that's why I am using a 12dbi USB antenna from Hawking.
9. My Airport is in a closet right nest to the outside wall of the back of the house right at the eve of the roof- my Hawking antenna is pointed pout the window at the exact spot where the airport is.
10. that's what I have been trying to do.

I think If I run Ethernet and run my Airport in the garage at 5Ghz I will get fast speeds again- I had it set up in the house in 5Ghz until about December and had awesome speeds, then after moving out to the garage I dropped from about 8-10mbps to 5-6mbps now I am at a staggering halting speed of less than 1mbps...
I want my network out here.
wireless seems to have failed me as far as surfaces and distance.
All I want to do is run the Ethernet - which is where I was back in September or so.

I just want this all to work
and it should

thank you all
any other input on trenching Ethernet will be helpful
--Ian

[runonce]

looks like there are industrial/weather proof products out there

http://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Waterproof-Ethernet-Direct-Burial/dp/B002HFEBYM

I think there are "yard slicer" tools available that make it easy to slice open and bury your wire with minimal lawn disturbance...

[Gordon]

I think there are "yard slicer" tools available that make it easy to slice open and bury your wire with minimal lawn disturbance...

at&t used something similar running new lines when we tried uverse.  you couldn't even tell they did anything in the yard. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I think there are "yard slicer" tools available that make it easy to slice open and bury your wire with minimal lawn disturbance...

at&t used something similar running new lines when we tried uverse.  you couldn't even tell they did anything in the yard.

How do those work with the OPs concrete?