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Gear / Technical Help => Photo / Video Recording => Topic started by: spyder9 on January 31, 2012, 11:51:58 AM

Title: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: spyder9 on January 31, 2012, 11:51:58 AM
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS20 amd ZS15 were announced today. 

20x and 16x respectively.  1080 video.  Ships in March 2012

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/31/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs20-dmc-zs15/

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/01/leaddsc05114.jpg)

Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: justink on January 31, 2012, 12:06:59 PM
nice!!! 

why do i feel the need to upgrade all of a sudden???
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: it-goes-to-eleven on January 31, 2012, 01:46:34 PM
"and a noise-canceling stereo mic."

I hope their audio noise reduction isn't as nasty as their image noise reduction! :P

I'm not going to upgrade until I can get a 1000X zoom.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Ziggz on February 01, 2012, 05:17:49 AM
Hopefully the 1080 recording is continuous. 
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: tapeheadtoo on February 01, 2012, 03:42:28 PM
Hopefully the 1080 recording is continuous.

Unless they re-write the tariff laws (import tax regulations require an extra duty on "camcorders") the limit on recording 1080 on these P&S cameras will not change.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: rastasean on February 01, 2012, 06:18:24 PM
glad to see they are using leica!
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: it-goes-to-eleven on February 01, 2012, 08:00:25 PM
glad to see they are using leica!

In name only.  Real Leica lenses cost more than these cameras.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: exxile on February 02, 2012, 04:31:19 AM
Really wish they wouldn't put the rec/power buttons next to the zoom dial like that, so easy to accidently press
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: rastasean on February 02, 2012, 10:37:26 AM
glad to see they are using leica!

In name only.  Real Leica lenses cost more than these cameras.

I think its more than a name. A generation or two of cameras ago, they were using Panasonic label. 
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: TimeBandit on February 02, 2012, 11:31:26 AM
I own a zs3 and there is also Leica printed on the lens.  But that aren't real Leica - the lenses are manufactured by Standards set and controlled by Leica on Panasonics own plants.

btw. won't uprade, zs3 still in use :)
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Gutbucket on February 02, 2012, 04:29:57 PM
Hopefully the 1080 recording is continuous.

Unless they re-write the tariff laws (import tax regulations require an extra duty on "camcorders") the limit on recording 1080 on these P&S cameras will not change.

At one point a few models back, didn't the US ones record past the 30 minute limit or whatever it is, but not the European versions?

This has been the deal breaker for me.  I want one I can put a large capacity SDHC card into, gaf tape it to a wall or column, and let it run unattended and entire set.  Just like my audio rig.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Ziggz on February 02, 2012, 07:07:21 PM
I think that still applies to the Euro ones.
720 is continuous on models elsewhere. Curious how that gets a pass when 1080 doesn't.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: rastasean on February 02, 2012, 09:19:40 PM
I own a zs3 and there is also Leica printed on the lens.  But that aren't real Leica - the lenses are manufactured by Standards set and controlled by Leica on Panasonics own plants.

btw. won't uprade, zs3 still in use :)

They are not real but that camera has great optics.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: guitard on February 03, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
I want one I can put a large capacity SDHC card into, gaf tape it to a wall or column, and let it run unattended and entire set.  Just like my audio rig.

Chances are - the battery wouldn't last to the end of the set though (unless it's a short show).
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: guitard on February 03, 2012, 09:13:52 PM
Optical zoom is a wonderful feature.  But...

Because of the small size and light weight of these cameras, when you hit the16x zoom range - you have to have a really steady hand and good holding technique to free-hand a decent shot.  Practically speaking, you need to be in a supported position, i.e., resting your arms/elbows on a table top, railing or ledge; or be leaning against a wall; or better yet - using a a tripod.

I recently shot some footage from the cheap seats at 16X zoom by holding the camera with both hands between my legs, with my arms resting on top of my legs, and that worked really well. 
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: TimeBandit on February 04, 2012, 03:56:26 AM

At one point a few models back, didn't the US ones record past the 30 minute limit or whatever it is, but not the European versions?

This has been the deal breaker for me.  I want one I can put a large capacity SDHC card into, gaf tape it to a wall or column, and let it run unattended and entire set.  Just like my audio rig.

All full HD panasonics are limited to 30 minutes, seamless recording was only ZS3; ZS7.  I wait until Canon releases the ixus 500 / PowerShot ELPH 520 HS which has also full HD, can use 64 gig SDXC - and the housing looks very cool - just like the powershot sd1100 / ixus 70 - the first camera i went into photography ...  (so maybe choosing this has a bit of sentimentality  8) )

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_elph_520_hs

Video: MOV (Image: H.264; Audio data; Linear PCM (2 channel stereo))   ;D
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Gutbucket on February 04, 2012, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: TimeBandit link=topic=153230.msg1940577#msg1940577
..I wait until Canon releases the ixus 500 / PowerShot ELPH 520 HS..

So no 30min limit for 1080 HD?  The specification page  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_elph_520_hs#Specifications) would seem to indicate that is the case:

Full HD: 1920 x 1080 - 24 fps - Video Size - 4,355KB/sec - 32GB - 1 hr. 59 min. 43 sec.

Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: guitard on February 04, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: TimeBandit link=topic=153230.msg1940577#msg1940577
..I wait until Canon releases the ixus 500 / PowerShot ELPH 520 HS..

So no 30min limit for 1080 HD?  The specification page  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_elph_520_hs#Specifications) would seem to indicate that is the case:

Full HD: 1920 x 1080 - 24 fps - Video Size - 4,355KB/sec - 32GB - 1 hr. 59 min. 43 sec.

I believe the time listed at the end is how much will fit on a 32GB card - and not how long you can continuously record.  That's just my take though...
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Ziggz on February 24, 2012, 03:19:34 PM
ZS20 review http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4947&review=panasonic+lumix+zs20
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: tailschao on April 21, 2012, 10:41:23 AM
Just FYI, in case anyone cares

Panasonic TZ30 (AKA, ZS20 in the USA) live concert video samples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV0TusjYFb8 (external audio & rested on barrier)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHyyaQRIm3s (Onboard audio, though not full band so hard to judge - held up in the air & full zoom for much of it)

Zoom range is very good, stabilisation is very good, low light exposure is better than I was expecting. There is decidedly too much in-cam denoising going on, it's too contrasty and there doesn't seem to be any way of manually controlling the exposure or focus when shooting video. I'd love to be corrected on this. You can change the way the auto exposure is metered (whole frame, centre of frame or balance of the two), but not much else. I'm wondering if the face detection mode works in video, that'd be fine enough for a concert. Still, the auto focus and exposure seem to cope well.

The on-cam audio for sample number 1 sounds perfectly fine, and I was 6ft away from a speaker. Death Metal shows with 300bpm kick drum EQed and bloated to space and back will probably cause an issue, but this not exactly quiet and the cam handled the audio fine. Not that you'd want to just stick to cam audio, but it's servicable if you have to.

I do wish there was a 25p mode, with, say, a Bitrate of 24 Mbit/Sec. 50p at 28 Mbit/Sec just sounds a little on the low side to me, and, frankly, I don't need 50p. It'd be nice to have the option of 50p, but if I had to choose permanently between 25p at 24Mbps or 50p at 28Mbps, I'd choose the former.

100 min show took up around 20GB (as it should have done, bitrate wise). Recording stopped every 30 mins but only took a second or two to finish saving and be able to hit record again. The official battery life estimates (65 mins at 1080p50 28Mbps) are accurate, from my experience so far.

I was torn between buying this or the Sony HX30V. I don't have a HX30V to compare with, but I'm not regretting my decision to go Panasonic. It will be annying if it turns out that the HX30V has more manual controls in video mode though.

It is not, of course, as good a genuine camcorder, but its size enables you to film in places that a genuine camcorder would not go (like, the front row - especially over here in Euroland where, by and large, P&S sized cams can be held in the face of security all night without a single batted eyelid), and with that in mind it's fantastic. I filmed the entire show of the first sample link from the same location in the same quality, and would I have been able to roll my dear darling Canon HV20 in that tiny ass venue? As much as I love my baby to pieces... no I fucking would not, not even in Euroland.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: Andy L on April 23, 2012, 09:32:33 AM
Tailschao - I saw your Oli Brown torrent on DIME (I went to the Manchester show but didn't tape), saw that sample and it's actually made me want to go out and buy a TZ30 for myself! I haven't got a clue about photography or any of the terms or techniques involved and I've never even considered filming shows before - partly because of the extra work that'd be involved but also because I didn't realise the video quality on compact cameras was that good nowadays. I'd love to document the shows I go to in that quality although I realise there'd be some it might not be so suitable for (e.g. outdoor gigs or anywhere that didn't have a place to rest the camera on). Is filming at gigs with a TZ30 (or similar camera) generally a matter of point and shoot or are there techniques and settings I need to learn about first?
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: mrmaxwell on April 25, 2012, 12:48:52 AM
Great samples.

The Panasonic could be just what the doctor ordered.

I want to be able to tape some upcoming shows in semi-stealth mode as the artist is against taping/filming. I was going to use my iPhone 4S and buy the external Tascam IM2 mic to get a half-decent sound, but the Panasonic sounds like a much better solution if not for size and optical zoom alone.

Do these cams have any kind of stabilisation built in?
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: guitard on April 25, 2012, 08:35:36 PM
The iPhones shoot nice video for general purposes (especially in good, natural lighting), but just don't do very well in concert settings.  Just my opinion though.

You'll be able to shoot a much nicer video with a good P&S camera.

Most of the newer model P&S cams (like the Sony HXV9) have good stabilization.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: genesisoh on April 26, 2012, 02:35:06 PM
Just FYI, in case anyone cares

Panasonic TZ30 (AKA, ZS20 in the USA) live concert video samples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV0TusjYFb8 (external audio & rested on barrier)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHyyaQRIm3s (Onboard audio, though not full band so hard to judge - held up in the air & full zoom for much of it)

Zoom range is very good, stabilisation is very good, low light exposure is better than I was expecting. There is decidedly too much in-cam denoising going on, it's too contrasty and there doesn't seem to be any way of manually controlling the exposure or focus when shooting video. I'd love to be corrected on this. You can change the way the auto exposure is metered (whole frame, centre of frame or balance of the two), but not much else. I'm wondering if the face detection mode works in video, that'd be fine enough for a concert. Still, the auto focus and exposure seem to cope well.

The on-cam audio for sample number 1 sounds perfectly fine, and I was 6ft away from a speaker. Death Metal shows with 300bpm kick drum EQed and bloated to space and back will probably cause an issue, but this not exactly quiet and the cam handled the audio fine. Not that you'd want to just stick to cam audio, but it's servicable if you have to.

I do wish there was a 25p mode, with, say, a Bitrate of 24 Mbit/Sec. 50p at 28 Mbit/Sec just sounds a little on the low side to me, and, frankly, I don't need 50p. It'd be nice to have the option of 50p, but if I had to choose permanently between 25p at 24Mbps or 50p at 28Mbps, I'd choose the former.

100 min show took up around 20GB (as it should have done, bitrate wise). Recording stopped every 30 mins but only took a second or two to finish saving and be able to hit record again. The official battery life estimates (65 mins at 1080p50 28Mbps) are accurate, from my experience so far.

I was torn between buying this or the Sony HX30V. I don't have a HX30V to compare with, but I'm not regretting my decision to go Panasonic. It will be annying if it turns out that the HX30V has more manual controls in video mode though.

It is not, of course, as good a genuine camcorder, but its size enables you to film in places that a genuine camcorder would not go (like, the front row - especially over here in Euroland where, by and large, P&S sized cams can be held in the face of security all night without a single batted eyelid), and with that in mind it's fantastic. I filmed the entire show of the first sample link from the same location in the same quality, and would I have been able to roll my dear darling Canon HV20 in that tiny ass venue? As much as I love my baby to pieces... no I fucking would not, not even in Euroland.

Samples look GREAT!!!  Did you manually adjust the exposure setting or use the default?  I still own (and love) a ZS3. 
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: jbou on May 07, 2012, 06:43:49 PM
I've been wanting a point and shoot for casual use and have been looking at the lumix series. I'm no expert with cameras. Anyone know how either performs in low light for taking pictures? I know point and shoots can only do so much in low light but I am trying to find something that will take decent pictures at shows.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: achalsey on March 29, 2013, 04:52:13 PM
I'm going to bump this in hopes of some advice.

Can anyone point me in the proper direction for video settings for low light concerts?  I read over the advice on the ZS7 thread, but was wondering if there were any further points on the later models.  I've got a ZS19.  So far all I gathered is a 1/400 shutter speed, with auto focus and intelligent exposure off.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: beatkilla on March 29, 2013, 08:04:40 PM
I dont have that camera but for video you want 1/60th of a second and dont zoom in as i doubt that camera has a constant aperture.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: fuzzypants on April 06, 2013, 12:29:46 AM
I have a zs15 is there a way to record longer then 30 minutes in 1080? What do you guys do for shows that are longer then 30 minutes?
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: beatkilla on April 06, 2013, 06:34:43 AM
You just press stop after 2 songs and hit record again.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: guitard on April 06, 2013, 07:23:00 AM
I have a zs15 is there a way to record longer then 30 minutes in 1080? What do you guys do for shows that are longer then 30 minutes?

Following along with what Beatkilla said . . .

If it's a band that plays a regular setlist, check out a recording of a recent show ahead of time, and pick and choose your stop points so that you can consistently stop/re-start between songs when the band doesn't immediately jump right into another song.  So the end result is the only thing missing from the video are a few segments of between-song cheering.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix DMC ZS20 and ZS15
Post by: fuzzypants on April 06, 2013, 09:15:36 AM
brilliant! thanks guys