Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?  (Read 21075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline (Evan)

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 231
So after using AT853's with various capsules for many years, I think it's time to upgrade.

I'm mainly a stealth musical theatre taper, and I almost always making binaural recordings with omnis secured near my ears. Crowd noise is never an issue in musical theatre, so omni caps have served me very well.

I'm interested in moving to either AKG or Schoeps caps with active cables and an Nbox/Tinybox/whatever into my PCM-D50.

For my purposes, can you guys point me in the best direction for what I want to do?

Offline Scooter123

  • "I am not an alcoholic. I am a drunk. Drunks don't go to meetings."
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3763
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2015, 10:14:00 PM »
I'm a Schoeps-NBox guy after fooling with several mike and preamp combos. 

You'll need to mount them in a hat--they are too big for glasses. 

The NBox can go in an inside pocket or fanny back.

Personally, I think it is the best microphone-preamp combination.

Although Neuman KM140s are excellent mikes, just a tad bigger than the Schoeps caps. 

PM me for details if you'd like.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 02:20:06 AM by Scooter123 »
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

adrianf74

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 09:07:16 AM »
Hey Evan,

Where to start with this one?

I've run the 853's (and am soon to be returning to them due to a multitude of reasons).  I've also run the Naiant AKG Actives > Tinybox and the Schoeps Nbob Actives > Tinybox.  All of this comes down to what you want to spend.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who will say that "full capsuled omnis" won't be a huge improvement over other omni options.  I've run CA-14 and AT853 omnis against AKG 482's in the past and there hasn't been a HUGE improvement.   If you're an omni-only guy, you might want to look at the DPA 4060's as they're available, are small, and are pretty decent sounding (although they have the "DPA bump" which some people dislike).

IMHO, unless you were looking to run cards or hypers/supers, I don't see the logic in moving to capsules/actives.  They're larger, must be hat mounted, and aren't as comfortable to wear (for longer periods of time) compared to smaller mics.  The million dollar question is "how much do you want to spend" and _IF_ you can find an active TinyBox in the Yard.

Now that Jon's stopped production of his preamps, you've got limited choices: either find your flavoured TinyBox in the Yard or buy an Nbox (platinum) new or used when one shows up.   Schoeps caps will set you back around $1250 used vs. AKG caps which will set you back around $550 (new) and used becomes harder with active options.

I'll shoot you a PM with some other numbers.

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 09:34:31 AM »
All things equal, people with a limited budget tend to degrade their opinion Schoeps based solely on sound comparisons and because of their initial expense.  Over time, those of us that commit to the product find that they pay off for two differentiating factors...the company services what they sell for decades and the product line is so diverse.  The diversity of the product line is important because, as your recording needs change, the range of products available doesn't force major changes in the foundation of the gear in your bag.  At the opposite end is MBHO, who offers a great product, but no diversity and poor support to the point where, even if you want new capsules they're hard to locate and buy...I'm not sure if they've changed but several years ago they never even bothered to update their website!

Offline (Evan)

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 02:20:11 PM »

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who will say that "full capsuled omnis" won't be a huge improvement over other omni options.  I've run CA-14 and AT853 omnis against AKG 482's in the past and there hasn't been a HUGE improvement.

Does anyone else have anything to add to this? This comes as a huge surprise to me.

adrianf74

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 02:34:43 PM »

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who will say that "full capsuled omnis" won't be a huge improvement over other omni options.  I've run CA-14 and AT853 omnis against AKG 482's in the past and there hasn't been a HUGE improvement.

Does anyone else have anything to add to this? This comes as a huge surprise to me.

I'm not saying they're not better but not exponentially.  There will be some better definition, separation and clarity but the small omni/big omni debate isn't anywhere as drastic as say, hypers or cards. 

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 04:51:10 PM »
Evan, when it comes to gear upgrades, the best thing you can do is listen to the archive and trust your own ears.  Theory is great for the sake of discussion, but it never helped my ears decide what sounded better to me.  If you don't hear a fairly reasonable sound improvement with a good recording made with a pair of AKG-482 or Schoeps MK2's over a good recording with a pair of AT853 omnis, I'll be very surprised, though I agree with Adrian that the improvement is not a linear relationship with the amount of money you spend.  The only sound improvement you hear when changing between hypers and cards is the amount of off-axis rejection...such as rejection of room reverb.  Otherwise two capsules from the same model/line should sound nearly identical.

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4095
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 09:11:21 PM »
At the opposite end is MBHO, who offers a great product, but no diversity and poor support to the point where, even if you want new capsules they're hard to locate and buy...I'm not sure if they've changed but several years ago they never even bothered to update their website!

NoHypeAudio in Belgium has a good MBHO selection including the modular caps, and their customer service is outstanding.  I bought my Line Audio mics there and highly recommend them.
http://www.nohypeaudio.com/mbhoproducts.htm
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40690
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
    • MediaFire Recordings
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2015, 03:24:39 AM »
I agree with what Adrian and Tonedeaf said! First, you must figure out a budget, and secondly, like Tonedeaf said, listen, listen, listen on www.archive.org and bt.etree.org mainly! Archive.org is nice because you can easily DL/Stream the recordings without fully committing to the whole DL like you would on etree.org, since that's a bit torrent site! Noone can decide which mics you prefer BUT you ;) And there are a lot of different samples of Schoeps/AKG omnis on archive.org! It might take a few weeks to really check most of them out, but I would rather spend a few weeks listening on there than just buying something really fast and then end up not liking it as much as you thought you would!

And another thing, like Adrian said, Its damn near impossible to find a used Littlebox/Tinybox with a Schoeps KCY or AKG Actives input in the yard sale! It was hard enough to find one when Jon WAS still making them. Now that they've been discontinued, well, it would be a matter of luck IMO ;) So your Schoeps options would be Schoeps capsules>Schoeps KCY/NBob KCY(I've heard the NBob Actives are easier to steal*h with since they don't have the Schoeps KCY Junction Box, and the cable is thinner and easier to manage)>Naiant PFA>+48v preamp/all-in-one recorder, which is going to be bulky IMO! Not much better with the AKG actives. Without finding a used Littlebox/Tinybox, its going to be a lot of cables and stuff to deal with IMO!

If omnis are what you're after, I would probably go with the DPA 4060/4061 omnis. They're tiny as shit, and can fit on glasses, versus mounting the bigger Schoeps/AKGs + Active cables inside of a hat! Not to mention there are TONS of samples of the DPA 406x on archive.org! And I'm sure that you can get the DPA 406x cables cut down to whatever length that you want to make steal%hing them a little easier ;) Hell, I like the Church Audio CA14/CA11 omnis just as much as the DPA 406x series, but that's just my opinion ;) And the CA14/CA11 are only $100/pair ;)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 694
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 04:09:54 AM »

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who will say that "full capsuled omnis" won't be a huge improvement over other omni options.  I've run CA-14 and AT853 omnis against AKG 482's in the past and there hasn't been a HUGE improvement.

Does anyone else have anything to add to this? This comes as a huge surprise to me.

There isn't a linear pro-rata correlation between cost and sound quality improvement moving from miniature to full sized omni's (or any other type of mic for that matter), but IMO there is a VERY noticeable improvement. My experience is going from DPA 4061 to 4006, something like a 3-4 fold cost hike, with easily (at least) 2x improvement IMO, really it's that obvious! Lower self-noise of course, but many other aspects including ruler flat on-axis response (no 10K 'bump'), off-axis directional response at high frequencies (adaptable with APE attachments), sublime mids and highs, MUCH better bass (bass to die for - less bloat/boom, more body and control, very very deep). I would imagine there is a similar level of improvement going to something like Schoeps MK2 but I've never tried them (in different ways maybe, without getting into the DPA vs. Schoeps debate).   
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 08:34:20 AM by yates7592 »

Offline Ultfris101

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • Gender: Male
  • Spoon!!!
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 09:38:14 AM »
I would really suggest DPA 4060s if what you record is not rock music, and 4061's if it is. Very small and you get great performance. Great detail and range. I like the CA mics I have as well. The DPAs are smaller and have worked well.

You don't say what preamp/battery box you're using now but it's quite possible you can keep the rest of your gear chain the same at least for a first move and be able to compare how your rig sounds with a single change.

I think DPA 406x > CA Ugly Battery Box > Sony D-50 or D-100 would probably be a great performing rig. Save a few bucks and get a Sony M10 and in my opinion you're in the sweet spot as far as  >:D rigs go weighing price, size, quality.

I've never tried to  >:D with the larger mics tho I use them when I tape open which is most of the time. I feel they are the worth the money I invested for the recording I do.

I don't have interest in trying to  >:D with the bigger mics. For one I don't have any hair to hide cables up to a hat (but i am growing a beard so that might change :)  ! ) I usually put the mics in my shirt collar and it just doesn't work for me with the bigger capsules.

Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

Offline (Evan)

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 231
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2015, 10:58:29 AM »
The problem with listening to recordings on the LMA to make a decision is that there aren't really any recordings made in the style that I will be using. That is, binaural recordings of musical theatre in venues designed for that type of music. To be honest, most of the recordings on the LMA, even with expensive microphones, don't sound very good compared to my own recordings. I believe this is due to the different types of mixing and amplification that are used at concerts vs live theatre. So I have no real reference of what type of sound upgrade I could possibly get in that environment.

Offline Ultfris101

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • Gender: Male
  • Spoon!!!
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 01:53:27 PM »
Yes, basing anything on LMA recordings is a bit dodgy. There's all kinds of different factors and processing. And if you're recording in a quiet theater it's very different than a noisy rock venue.

Any chance you could borrow some mics from somebody?
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 01:55:44 PM »
So after using AT853's with various capsules for many years, I think it's time to upgrade.

I'm mainly a stealth musical theatre taper, and I almost always making binaural recordings with omnis secured near my ears. Crowd noise is never an issue in musical theatre, so omni caps have served me very well.

I'm interested in moving to either AKG or Schoeps caps with active cables and an Nbox/Tinybox/whatever into my PCM-D50.

For my purposes, can you guys point me in the best direction for what I want to do?

Especially since the tinybox is not made anymore, I think Schoeps>NBox is the best-sounding combination. Obviously the AKG combo is less expensive and still quite good.

I don't think fullsize omnis are really the way to go. Yes, the larger diaphragm Schoeps MK2 is quite good, but the DPA 4061 is a lot closer in quality to the Schoeps MK2 than, say, AT 853 cards are to Schoeps MK4V

Oh, I personally recommend the V caps, especially for stealth.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:57:49 PM by acidjack »
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Thinking about taking the Schoeps or AKG actives plunge. Best options?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 02:22:07 PM »
Splitting hairs about definitions, but I assume that 'full-sized' in the context people are using the term in this thread, means bigger than miniature mics, right?  I know there are many people on ts.com that stealth with Schoeps even though they're being referred to here as 'full size'.  I mean, the Schoeps collette series is, by definition, a small diaphragm microphone as opposed to say a Neumann large diaphragm TL series mic.  I think the point being made is that, due to their size, Schoeps aren't as conveniently stealthable as the miniature DPA-40xx microphones, but they're most certainly stealthable.  So, I'm not really sure what 'full sized' means, although I guess if Schoeps are full-size then LD mics would be 'much bigger than full-sized?'   
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 02:29:16 PM by tonedeaf »

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.09 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF