Topic: AT853 un-mod cable problem part rant part question

[Zaphod]

So since I don't own a soldering iron, I had a local retailer make me a cable for my 853's.

I had them chop off the mini plug, and in its place add a mini 5 pin xlr.

I them had them make the extension cable: a female 5 pin mini xlr>two 3 pin mini xlr.

Then today I'm excited to test these puppies out with phantom power, I've got them in DIN running into samson PM4 phantom power adapters into a PS2>AD20 combo.

I crank the stereo up and record. First thing I notice is that it's hard to get levels at all. I get to about -12dB, and record a minute, then play it back.

It's only coming through one channel, the right, and sounds hollow. I swap the channels around to see what happens, same thing, nothing on the left, everything on the right.

I talk into the mics, first the left, it records my voice clearly, but its coming through the right channel. When I speak into the right mic, it clips badly like its overly sensitive and my voice doesn't come thorugh at all.

Then I ran the mics through some AT8531 power modules powered by two AA's and get the same results, so no way its the PS2>AD20.

I am pretty sure its the cable/adapters that I just had made. I spoke with the guy that built it and he said that he may have one of the - cables in the 5 pin on a + pin or vice versa. Is this something that could have damaged my mics? Does anyone know what else it sould be? I am having them look at it on Monday.

I am sooo freaking frustrated about it! I have a show Wednesday that I would like to record with my new setup! 
 

[leegeddy]

So since I don't own a soldering iron, I had a local retailer make me a cable for my 853's.

I had them chop off the mini plug, and in its place add a mini 5 pin xlr.

I them had them make the extension cable: a female 5 pin mini xlr>two 3 pin mini xlr.

Then today I'm excited to test these puppies out with phantom power, I've got them in DIN running into samson PM4 phantom power adapters into a PS2>AD20 combo.

I crank the stereo up and record. First thing I notice is that it's hard to get levels at all. I get to about -12dB, and record a minute, then play it back.

It's only coming through one channel, the right, and sounds hollow. I swap the channels around to see what happens, same thing, nothing on the left, everything on the right.

I talk into the mics, first the left, it records my voice clearly, but its coming through the right channel. When I speak into the right mic, it clips badly like its overly sensitive and my voice doesn't come thorugh at all.

Then I ran the mics through some AT8531 power modules powered by two AA's and get the same results, so no way its the PS2>AD20.

I am pretty sure its the cable/adapters that I just had made. I spoke with the guy that built it and he said that he may have one of the - cables in the 5 pin on a + pin or vice versa. Is this something that could have damaged my mics? Does anyone know what else it sould be? I am having them look at it on Monday.

I am sooo freaking frustrated about it! I have a show Wednesday that I would like to record with my new setup! 
 

it definitely sounds like a mixup in the wiring.

fwiw, the ORIGINAL connection for AT853a, which terminates in a mini 3pin XLR is as follows:

Yellow conductors > Pin 2
Red conductors > Pin 3
Shield > Pin 1

that's "out of the box" pin assignments.

the mini XLRF mates with the mini XLRM on the AT8533 Phantom power module.

i don't know what the pin layout is for the mini XLR 5pin is, but as long as you keep the consistency, there should not be an issue.

for a STANDARD 5 pin assignment is as follows:

XLR-5
as seen from the pin side

Pin 1: GND
Pin 2: +Phase channel I
Pin 3: –Phase channel I
Pin 4: +Phase channel II
Pin 5: –Phase channel II

if you can open up your mini 5 Pin xlr and look at the pin assignments and report back, i could possibly figure out where it went wrong.

marc

[Zaphod]

I forgot to add that I did give them mini 5 and 3 pin xlr assingment as well as the wiring assingment for the AT853s. And just to be sure the got it right I drew it exaclty how I wanted the cable terminated. It must be kind of complicated to wire it, but they should've got it right.

I got the pin assingment from a post that Mike pointed out to me with a link from you leegeddy http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=15888.0

I won't be able to look at the wiring until tomorrow, but I don't think I want to take it apart, unless someone knows if my mics could be damaged due to mis-wiring on their part?

[leegeddy]

I forgot to add that I did give them mini 5 and 3 pin xlr assingment as well as the wiring assingment for the AT853s. And just to be sure the got it right I drew it exaclty how I wanted the cable terminated. It must be kind of complicated to wire it, but they should've got it right.

I got the pin assingment from a post that Mike pointed out to me with a link from you leegeddy http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=15888.0

I won't be able to look at the wiring until tomorrow, but I don't think I want to take it apart, unless someone knows if my mics could be damaged due to mis-wiring on their part?

just a note that those pin assignments are for STANDARD xlr and not for mini xlr, which have different pin locations.

marc

[Zaphod]

Damn I should have noticed that. Though it seems that if they didn't cross any of the wires it should work.

Does anyone know the pin assingments for the mini xlr 3 pin and 5 pins perhaps?

[Sean Gallemore]

why use a 5pin at all?

see marc's post above for pin assignments

[Zaphod]

I used the 5 pin so I can use phantom power and the SP batt. box. The 5 pin just seems like a good sturdy connector.

The pin assingments above are the ones I gave them, that I didn't realize they were for standard xlr not mini xlr.

I'll hopefully have more info for everyone tomorrow, thanks for the help so far.

[AT853rxwh]

I used the 5 pin so I can use phantom power and the SP batt. box. The 5 pin just seems like a good sturdy connector.

The pin assingments above are the ones I gave them, that I didn't realize they were for standard xlr not mini xlr.

I'll hopefully have more info for everyone tomorrow, thanks for the help so far.

5 pin beats having twice as many connectors...

[Zaphod]

So I am baffled at how this guy let this happen here is what I found:

5 pin mini xlr male (end of mics):
(L)yellow>2
(L)red>3 these were not attached when I opened it up, they came off
(R)yellow>4
(R)red>5
Gnd>1

5 pin mini xlr female (breakout cable):
(?)yellow>2
(?)red>5
(?)yellow>4
(?)red>3
Gnd>1

3 pin mini xlr (ends of breakout cable same wiring)
yellow>2
red>3
gnd>1

Now with having been wired like this, could there have been any damage to my mics giving it phantom power? I didn't see or smell smoke so I'm assuming that's a good sign. I swear this guy must've been stoned, how the hell do you mess it up like that?

Edit: so I had my pins mixed up initially, I re-numbered the ones I had wrong. He got it wrong by wiring one mics on the male end to pins 2,3 for left and 4,5 for right, then on the break out cable he wired them 3,4 to one 3 pin min xlr and pins 2,5 to the other. Ground was right pin 1.

[Sean Gallemore]

sorry for your troubles with the 5pin. 

[leegeddy]

sorry for your troubles with the 5pin. 

yeah. too bad about the bad wiring, but to be honest, i don't like the 5 pin jobs to begin with.  the mini xlr 3pin are very small. imagine what a 5 pin looks like.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

'xactly

[Zaphod]

Yeah after looking at it, it seems like a pain in the ass to wire.

Still seems like the right choice for my application, I'll get it in order, thanks for the help.

[Sean Gallemore]

I used the 5 pin so I can use phantom power and the SP batt. box. The 5 pin just seems like a good sturdy connector.

The pin assingments above are the ones I gave them, that I didn't realize they were for standard xlr not mini xlr.

I'll hopefully have more info for everyone tomorrow, thanks for the help so far.

5 pin beats having twice as many connectors...

how is having a 5pin less connectors.  Right now I only need 2, one mini-xlr for each cable

with a 5pin in there, you'd have 2 5s and 2 3s, i don't get it

[leegeddy]

5 pin mini xlr male (end of mics):
(L)yellow>2
(L)red>3 these were not attached when I opened it up, they came off
(R)yellow>4
(R)red>5
Gnd>1

5 pin mini xlr female (breakout cable):
(?)yellow>2
(?)red>5
(?)yellow>4
(?)red>3
Gnd>1

3 pin mini xlr (ends of breakout cable same wiring)
yellow>2
red>3
gnd>1

for the 5 pin Male/Female connections, all you have to do is keep the consistancy (ie, pin 3 > pin 3, etc.).

however!!!!  on the 3pin mini XLRF breakout connections (which mates with the phantom power adaptor), you need to follow these pin assignments:

yellow>pin2
red>pin3
gnd>pin1

given the pin layouts of the MINI-XLR connections:

    *         *
 3                1
          *
         2

notice that these layouts are NOT the same as standard XLR connection.
you must get these connections correctly for the bias voltage to be applied to the correct conductor.

marc

[AT853rxwh]

I used the 5 pin so I can use phantom power and the SP batt. box. The 5 pin just seems like a good sturdy connector.

The pin assingments above are the ones I gave them, that I didn't realize they were for standard xlr not mini xlr.

I'll hopefully have more info for everyone tomorrow, thanks for the help so far.

5 pin beats having twice as many connectors...

how is having a 5pin less connectors.  Right now I only need 2, one mini-xlr for each cable

with a 5pin in there, you'd have 2 5s and 2 3s, i don't get it

You only have yours set up for p48, he is trying to set up for both p48 and battery box...


and you can't run mini xlr to 8533x, it is hard wired



3 connectors total to go both ways,  if he went with 3 pins he would need 6 connectors

[AT853rxwh]

Now, if you are running 8533's or samson's you need 2 3pin male  for the mics 2 3 pin female for the mini plug cable.  I don't see a reason to use a 5 pin there...

[Sean Gallemore]

Now, if you are running 8533's or samson's you need 2 3pin male  for the mics 2 3 pin female for the mini plug cable.  I don't see a reason to use a 5 pin there...

i get that, but it sounds like Zaphod is running Samson PM4s, so I say scratch the 5pins

[AT853rxwh]

Now, if you are running 8533's or samson's you need 2 3pin male  for the mics 2 3 pin female for the mini plug cable.  I don't see a reason to use a 5 pin there...

i get that, but it sounds like Zaphod is running Samson PM4s, so I say scratch the 5pins

I would agree.  Just an extra at that point... And they are a pita to put on... Did my 3 5pin connectors and can't say that I would want to do that again... need a clamp to hold it and fair amount of patience...

[Sean Gallemore]

I almost said fugit when I say the mini 3s. My first time soldering, can't believe those haven't shorted yet either

[Zaphod]

Now, if you are running 8533's or samson's you need 2 3pin male  for the mics 2 3 pin female for the mini plug cable.  I don't see a reason to use a 5 pin there...

i get that, but it sounds like Zaphod is running Samson PM4s, so I say scratch the 5pins

I would if I had the cash to buy extra 3 pins, but at this point I already paid them for the labor, no sense in paying for the 3 pins when they have to fix it for free. I am broke and can't afford it, I probably should've just bought my own soldering iron for the trouble I've had with these. Live and learn.