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Author Topic: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?  (Read 12725 times)

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Offline OFOTD

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Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« on: January 30, 2006, 02:13:20 PM »
Having a conversation with a couple of friends the other day and discussed how much longer 16bit a/d converters will still have value.  Wth a few SBM's in the yard sale taking a long time to sell comapred to even 6 months ago it got me thinking about their value nowadays.  I'm not debating sound quality or a/d's with mods or stock ones, just more of the general "Is 16 bit worth anything anymore?"

As alot of folks have discussed the new generation of taping equipment (i.e. 24bit) and the release of affordable 24 bit devices like the MT and the 671 seems to have crashed the market for the SBM's and ADC20 and the like. 

Any thoughts/opinions? 


Offline anhisr

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 02:15:27 PM »
I would have to say yes
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Offline sleepypedro

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 02:25:53 PM »
.

Offline bconnolly

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2006, 02:34:30 PM »
As long as the price-point stays the same, yes.

Offline OFOTD

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2006, 02:44:33 PM »
As long as the price-point stays the same, yes.

Price point of the new 24 bit devices or of the 16bit units?    I can totally see the modded SBM's go for under $300 real soon.   

Offline jeromejello

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2006, 02:51:07 PM »
i was having a conversation along these lines last night on the way up to the crowes show.  i personally think that so long as cd audio remains standard, 16 bit will be more than suffient.  also, once you start 24 bit and caputuring all that info, the limitation is going to rest on your playback.  my old bose speakers are great for the warm analogue-y sound that i like, but the detail that 24 captures would be lost in that.  if i make the 24 bit jump it will be when i have a playback system that will support the bit depth and will also coinside with a medium that can be 24/96 with out dithering and resampling.

the market on sbm-1 can't drop out fast enough for me  >:D
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Offline blastroknow

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 03:15:25 PM »
As playback for the masses 16/44.1k is certainly going to be around for many more years but in terms of buying new gear that doesn't support higher resolutions I think you really have to look at what playback will be like in 3-5 years and support that.  I'd love another mod SBM1 but @ $400 or even down to $200 I'd have to say buying a 24/96k recorder would be the better buying decision.
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Offline neutrino

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 03:15:41 PM »
I recently switched over from a 16bit rig to a 24bit. I had been running  a modSBM1 > M1 and then picked up a MicroTrack. The first couple of recordings I thought sounded excellent, but than after really listening to the recordings, I began to wonder if I wasn't maximizing my recordings at 24bit, to the extent that I was at 16bit. I think the A/D and pre-amp of my 16bit setup sounded much better and although I was gaining greater detail recording in 24bit, the recordings sounded weaker to my ears. I was loosing the fullness of the bottom end and the punchyness of the mids I had with the modSBM. So I have now switched over to a modR1 which sounds so much better then the MT. I've come to think of it as sounding like a modSBM would if it was modified to put out 24bits.

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2006, 03:20:00 PM »
I recently switched over from a 16bit rig to a 24bit. I had been running  a modSBM1 > M1 and then picked up a MicroTrack. The first couple of recordings I thought sounded excellent, but than after really listening to the recordings, I began to wonder if I wasn't maximizing my recordings at 24bit, to the extent that I was at 16bit. I think the A/D and pre-amp of my 16bit setup sounded much better and although I was gaining greater detail recording in 24bit, the recordings sounded weaker to my ears. I was loosing the fullness of the bottom end and the punchyness of the mids I had with the modSBM. So I have now switched over to a modR1 which sounds so much better then the MT. I've come to think of it as sounding like a modSBM would if it was modified to put out 24bits.

    Personal opinion yes - but my ears are pleased...
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Offline OFOTD

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2006, 03:43:08 PM »
I think you really have to look at what playback will be like in 3-5 years and support that.

Good point.  It seems as though hardware manufactures for both pro and consumer are making the jump to 24 bit.  Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are designed for 24 bit audio.  While I know billions of people have 44.1/16 CD players in their homes and cars, I have been reading for months about how new generations of CD players will be 24 bit with backwards compatibility.  So at least for the future it looks like 24 bit is going to be the standard with back compatibility to 16bit.  Also from all of the articles i've read it looks like this particular switch to 24bit will NOT be a struggle between formats as most all of the hardware people seem to at least be on the same page re: 24bit


I recently switched over from a 16bit rig to a 24bit. I had been running  a modSBM1 > M1 and then picked up a MicroTrack. The first couple of recordings I thought sounded excellent, but than after really listening to the recordings, I began to wonder if I wasn't maximizing my recordings at 24bit, to the extent that I was at 16bit. I think the A/D and pre-amp of my 16bit setup sounded much better and although I was gaining greater detail recording in 24bit, the recordings sounded weaker to my ears. I was loosing the fullness of the bottom end and the punchyness of the mids I had with the modSBM. So I have now switched over to a modR1 which sounds so much better then the MT. I've come to think of it as sounding like a modSBM would if it was modified to put out 24bits.


I have heard a good number of recording at 24 bit that seemed to lack the power of similar 16 bit recordings.  But I am also confident that as the industry moves forward as a whole, better sounding products will be available. 

Offline macdaddy

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 03:57:55 PM »
until they make a 24 bit a>d that is the size of the sbm1, the sbm1 will have a place, esp the modded ones...

sometimes you need an unobtrusive rig, and i have yet to see one smaller than mine. and with the modSBM-1, the rig sounds great, too. but it is limited to 16/48...

no doubt there are 24 bit rigs that sound better, but until there is a solution that is as small as the one i run atm, i think the modSBM-1 will continue to have a place, and a market. now when a v3 comes along in a SBM-1 package, then the bottom will fall out. but that is nowhere on the horizon, afaik...

as for dat - i keep mine around for backup use only...

« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 04:01:19 PM by macdaddy »
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Offline Kindguy

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2006, 04:03:17 PM »
I recently switched over from a 16bit rig to a 24bit. I had been running  a modSBM1 > M1 and then picked up a MicroTrack. The first couple of recordings I thought sounded excellent, but than after really listening to the recordings, I began to wonder if I wasn't maximizing my recordings at 24bit, to the extent that I was at 16bit. I think the A/D and pre-amp of my 16bit setup sounded much better and although I was gaining greater detail recording in 24bit, the recordings sounded weaker to my ears. I was loosing the fullness of the bottom end and the punchyness of the mids I had with the modSBM. So I have now switched over to a modR1 which sounds so much better then the MT. I've come to think of it as sounding like a modSBM would if it was modified to put out 24bits.

    Personal opinion yes - but my ears are pleased...
dB-

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Must be. I feel the same way. But only ran 24bit once.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 04:07:12 PM by Kindguy »
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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2006, 04:10:50 PM »
As long as the price-point stays the same, yes.

Price point of the new 24 bit devices or of the 16bit units?    I can totally see the modded SBM's go for under $300 real soon.   

That has as much to do with the end of DAT and the fact that those converters are based on 10+ year old technology...

Offline spyder9

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2006, 04:53:15 PM »
Edirol has shown that the SBM-1 is on its way out.  The R1's A/D is real clean.  CF recorders have also created demand on the R&D Depts. to improve A/Ds.  I think its because bit accuracy is improving leaps and bounds in ADC technology.  I think will be an after thought, as they become a common part in everything known digitally.  The future is very near for consistent ADC.  Its where its at right now.

For our hobby, the SBM-1 would still kick around for Festivals, where one might still be running a MP2, FP24, or V2 into a JB3, and don't want to deal with swapping cards.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: Are 16bit A/D days numbered?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2006, 08:05:15 PM »
honestly from what I have heard from the A/D in the R1, it sounds fantastic...very similar to the t-mod SBM1 that george used to run....one less box and sounds good...

 

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