Topic: Advice on recording classical duo, which mics for guitar and violin?

[yltfan]

First time doing something like this, sorry for the noob questions.

I"m recording my friend's classical duo, just a guitar and violin. I'm thinking km140 on the guitar, akg414 (xls) cardioid on the violin. Since I want to keep it simple, I'll probably just go straight into the dr-680, but I could put the v3 in front if necessary.

Here's who I'm recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoWYVFkFL7E

For the mix, should I just do a blend of the two, with a mild pan? It will be in a house, probably similar to the video. Should I set up a room mic, maybe the other 414 omni?

Thanks for any advice.

[yltfan]

Also, I just found out that the guitar has a pickup. Would I be able to run that straight into the dr-680?

[jnorman34]

i would try to capture the duo with an ORTF main pair, plus an omni spot on the guitar.  you may not need the spot if the duo balances themselves well.   just using a single mic on each will wind up with a mix that may not sound like they are playing togther in tehe same place...

[yltfan]

Thanks for the tip, neighbor.  Which mics would you suggest, the 414's?

[notlance]

If at all possible, record them in a good room.  Few houses have a room big enough and reverberant enough to sound good.  Ask a local church if you can use their Nave or school if you can record in their auditorium.  For a duo you don’t need a concert hall, just something bigger than a living room and with a little ambiance.

It is probably better not to close mic these instruments, nor use a pickup.  Use one of the classic stereo microphone configurations a couple of feet out from the duo.  Position the mics and/or the performers to get a good balance between them.  With good musicians this is not difficult since they will balance themselves.  Microphone height is important, especially with a standing violinist and a seated guitarist.

As for mic configuration, I like to use MS or Blumlein, but ORTF is not wrong by any means.  You seem to have enough mics and channels to be able to try a couple of configurations at the same time if you wish, and then use the one that sounds the best.  Maybe try a pair of 414s in Blumlein and the KM184s in ORTF?  That's where I'd start.

[F.O.Bean]

I would do Subcards/ORTF

[One Cylinder]

If you can position the mics pretty close to the performers, I'd suggest 1 pair of Neumann KM140 (184) in x/y configuartion @ 90 degrees. As there's only 2 instruments it's the easiest way to capture an accurate stereo image.  x/y isn't as sexy as ORTF, M/S etc. but it works great in this type of situation, especially with acoustic instruments. I'd run the mics one > two feet high, a couple feel back from the performers, centered between them. I'd also suggest running the mics into your V3 and then on to your recorder via the V3's digital output.

 

[acidjack]

When I have done this, I have mic'd each instrument (cards, usually, but other things as are required - I've found if a caridiod picked up too much of neighboring instruments, I'd switch my -414 to omni), then mixed down with each channel mono and panning them as needed to make it sound natural and have stereo image. 

If you want it to sound more "live" then I think the suggestion of the ORTF pair, either in addition to or instead of micing each instrument, is a great idea.

[SmokinJoe]

Also, I just found out that the guitar has a pickup. Would I be able to run that straight into the dr-680?

FYI... Instruments have very high impedance outputs.   Generally they are plugged into an appropriate guitar amp, or run through a DI which converts to low impedance XLR.  Some preamps have an optional instrument input (a UA-5, and my Focusrite come to mind) and you have to push a particular button to engage that feature.  I've tried the "preamp with instrument input" route, but it didn't sound nearly as good as a DI.  I'm not sure if the DR680 has that or not.  If not, you'll probably get "something" plugging it into the 680 line in, but it's not optimal.

[yltfan]

Thanks for all the great advice! I should have mentioned the timing on this, but it was a week ago...

For various reasons (some of which were logistical) I ended up running the 414 cards ortf right in front of the duo, a single km140 on the guitar, plus the pickup. Because I was in a bit of a rush, I did not use the v3. For the first set, I did a mix of the 414's and the km140. For the second set, I added in the pickup. I have only played around with it a little, but I think I like the mix of all three.

If anyone is interested, I could post a sample.

[anodyne33]

Sure, I'd take a listen. And if you ever have the chance to do it again and you can score a good pair for the day, few things have made me tingle so much as listening to a good pair of KM84i's on nice acoustic instruments in an awesome room. I was fortunate to have V72 preamps which I'm sure didn't hurt, but the old 84s were just plain special some times.

[One Cylinder]

Sure, I'd take a listen. And if you ever have the chance to do it again and you can score a good pair for the day, few things have made me tingle so much as listening to a good pair of KM84i's on nice acoustic instruments in an awesome room. I was fortunate to have V72 preamps which I'm sure didn't hurt, but the old 84s were just plain special some times.

>>>>> My experience as well, although w/ a pair of KM184. Those mics are great for capturing the true sound of acoustic instruments....