Topic: Mil Spec Silver Cable Question

[Brian]

People like distortion, makes the sound bigger... it's just a sound illusion. Many rockers love distorted  stuff.......... That's what these cables are doing. They don't have much flex life either, teflon jacket is made for pulling through conduit.

i see what you are saying but perception will *always* trump specs when it comes to listening.  essentially....perception is reality.  so it's not exactly an illusion but rather your perception of the sound waves.

[Tim]

People like distortion, makes the sound bigger... it's just a sound illusion. Many rockers love distorted  stuff.......... That's what these cables are doing. They don't have much flex life either, teflon jacket is made for pulling through conduit.

i see what you are saying but perception will *always* trump specs when it comes to listening.  essentially....perception is reality.  so it's not exactly an illusion but rather your perception of the sound waves.

very well said Brian.

[George2]

Well, I haven't seen any spec on this cables, but have provided link to Canare specs. I'm not a cable tester.
As far as the shield, it looked like cloth. It would be good if your mil spec cables had cloth covering as well as the wire, as this would reduce handling noise..... oh, ya, those mil spec cables are not meant for handling...... they are for permanent installation. I'm a fan of using the right gear for the right job, and these mil spec silvers are not for mic or line signals recording location sound!

[Tim]

you seem so certain. Again, what types of cables have you actually run and tested?

[Todd R]

I'm kind of curious if anyone else was somewhat underwhelmed with the change over to SPC?
I was expecting alot more improvement than I got (belden 1804a quadstar spc cable), based on a lot of the comments from here at ts.com.
I was seriously expecting, going into this SPC thing, that I was going to go and replace all of my copper. But, the reality was I was not that overly impressed (enough to replace all of my cable).

It might be worth checking out the mil-spec SPC cable that uses teflon for both insulation of the individual conductors and the outer casing.  The cable nuts say that everything has an impact on sound -- metal used, size, arrangement of wires making up the conductor, insulator used, etc.  It seems most of the SPC being used and praised here is teflon-coated SPC, which the Belden 1804a is not.

I've got no idea if this is the difference or not, but if you're really motivated you might want to try out some teflon SPC to see if you feel any different about that cable.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

And there is the whole issue of quad vs. non-quad...  I really think that is an important comp that needs to be done.

[Brian]

And there is the whole issue of quad vs. non-quad...  I really think that is an important comp that needs to be done.

i'm going by memory so don't quote me....

but doesn't the star-quad config add more capacitance?   

i was also taught that cable shouldn't be coiled tightly if it's being used because it creates more capacitance and could have a negative impact on the sound.

[Todd R]

And there is the whole issue of quad vs. non-quad...  I really think that is an important comp that needs to be done.

Yep, good point -- and why I found Tim's experience between the leegeddy and my Segues interesting.  The segues I made him used a 4-cond starquad construction, and I don't think the leegeddy ones did.  As Brian notes, 4-cond designs have more capacitance which should have a slightly negative impact (particularly on the highs), though at the same time the starquad should help provide noise immunity.

My first round of cables (about 1200' total) used SPC in a starquad configuration.  After that, I switched to a 2-cond design, mainly since I was seeing more of my sales for ICs not mic cables, where noise immunity is not as great a concern (due to the higher line level signals concerned) -- so I switched to a 2-cond design to avoid the higher capacitance issues.

[Tim]

very interesting, thanks Todd

I don't know what to say. I just have been bothered by the mid-highs and high end for a while, it sounds squashed. I've tried all manner of tweaks and have been looking at rolling in different output tubes to help with this. It was just on a whim that I A/B'd your cables yesterday, I didn't think they'd change anything

very interesting thread

[it-goes-to-eleven]

So I must have missed which you preferred, Tim.  You liked the non-quad better?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

oh, ya, those mil spec cables are not meant for handling......

This has truth.  When I made my cables one of the first things I tested was mechanical transmission.  I thumped the wire to see how it transfered noise to mics and it was pretty harsh on the KM140s.  But in my application, I use the mil-spec with 414s that have internal shock isolation and for shories to the KM100s where the actives block mechanical transmission.  So I don't have an issue with it in the field. 

With respect to flexibility, most tapers I see are gentle with their wires compared to the cables on stage where boots and equipment get rolled over them every night.

[Chuck]

Chuck, you're always welcome to drop by my place when you're up here in Denver.

Tim, I will take you up on that sometime. 

[Chuck]

oh, ya, those mil spec cables are not meant for handling......

This has truth.  When I made my cables one of the first things I tested was mechanical transmission.  I thumped the wire to see how it transfered noise to mics and it was pretty harsh on the KM140s.  But in my application, I use the mil-spec with 414s that have internal shock isolation and for shories to the KM100s where the actives block mechanical transmission.  So I don't have an issue with it in the field. 

With respect to flexibility, most tapers I see are gentle with their wires compared to the cables on stage where boots and equipment get rolled over them every night.

I have a pair of Todd's Seques and have also done the mechanical transmission test. I have minimized the effect by putting both cables in one TechFlex wrap and leaving the TechFlex off of about 18", on each, at the mic end. I then let the white teflon wrapped wires coil a little bit at the mic end when I set them up.

[George2]

With respect to the capacitance issue between the 2 and 4 conductor.... we are only talking about a few feet of cabling here.......not 300meters. This should have no effect on a few ft.

Never heard the wives tall about not coiling wire......I think that goes along with "every ft. of wire means 1 mil sec of delay."

[it-goes-to-eleven]

With respect to the capacitance issue between the 2 and 4 conductor.... we are only talking about a few feet of cabling here.......not 300meters. This should have no effect on a few ft.

You've already said cable does not matter and is all the same.  When asked about capacitance, a very measurable property of cables, you ducked the question.

Now you're spouting off about capacitance like you know something about it.